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But isn't there a damn near equal value is just being happy? One of those, the happier you are, the happier you'll be? What is the real value is reading about people being shitty to one another and calling it cool?
There's always value to a beach read, but the real value to reading about shitty people being shitty to one another is that's real life - it doesn't fit in neat little boxes of white hat/black hat, with a structured beginning, middle and end.

As you say, there's value to both sides of the equation, but it's a mistake to only read one side of a coin.
 
I believe that Hemmingway (and Harrison) shows us how we all struggle at times with many of the same problems in life, with many of the same feelings (self doubt, self destructive, etc.)
Perhaps we can take some comfort in knowing that human struggles are shared and that we are not alone when we make mistakes.
 
Both were prone to creating hyper masculine characters that shitty things happen to
The particular books of his I've read so far haven't featured what I would consider hyper masculine characters (Dalva, The Road Home, Brown Dog, and the 3 short stories in Legends of the Fall) but it's granted a very limited sampling. Though "Revenge", the first story in LotF, I am pretty sure has enough shitty things happening in it to cover the rest of his works. . . . Brutal.

I'll keep reading more from both and see if I come around.
 
The particular books of his I've read so far haven't featured what I would consider hyper masculine characters (Dalva, The Road Home, Brown Dog, and the 3 short stories in Legends of the Fall) but it's granted a very limited sampling. Though "Revenge", the first story in LotF, I am pretty sure has enough shitty things happening in it to cover the rest of his works. . . . Brutal.

I'll keep reading more from both and see if I come around.
To each there own, it was only my interpretation
 
I am just finally finishing "24 Hours at Waterloo: 18 June 1815." Very well written but difficult to read. Disturbing. The progress of the battle was extremely complex ... and unbelievably brutal. Reading written accounts of officers and soldiers I am convinced there is no comparison to modern warfare. The difference is 19th century warfare generally tended to engagements in open areas. In fact, Waterloo broke the mold in that regard with a pivotal moment occurring when the two sides fought a fierce battle to take and retake a small Belgian town. Troop formations broke down and combat became furious to the point of total loss of order and humanity. In a word, everyone went mad. Most think PTSD "combat fatigue" originated with WWI trench warfare. Nothing compared to the horrors of the Napoleanic Wars.
 
Read Killers of the Flower Moon shortly after Grann’s release in ‘17. Watched Scorsese's flic over the weekend. Bit of a grind due to the length, dominated by DiCaprio and De Niro, but a meticulous period movie. Very good performance by the actress portraying Mollie Burkhart (Lily Gladstone).
 
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Coyote America by Dan Flores, interesting natural history read about coyotes and American expansion in the West. People killed a LOT of critters back then, it's unreal...
They still do. A recent analysis in Wisconsin estimated 84% of coyotes are shot. 13% are hit by cars, and the rest die of "natural mortality". I don't understand why people hate canids so much while their own mutts sleep on the couch.
 
Most people read for instant gratification without any attempt to process any further. ( myself included)
The value of such a class as my wife teaches is in getting kids to realize that there is much more to consider, meaning behind the words. Interpretation is subjective, so maybe there isn't an actual right or wrong understanding, but the process of simply training to think for a second is pretty significant. This, especially in today's world, where everything is laid out one click away.
Obviously there has been endless scholarly research on Hemingways work which paints a picture of his intentions.

I met Harrison once at a reading in Bozeman. Room was full of academics, so I felt out of place...a worker looking dude. I wanted to ask him a seemingly dumb question, but maybe not so. " what do you hope readers get from your novels?" I should have asked.
Hemingway, at least according to A.E. Hotchner, said he was quite sure he couldn't pass a course on Hemingway.
 
They still do. A recent analysis in Wisconsin estimated 84% of coyotes are shot. 13% are hit by cars, and the rest die of "natural mortality". I don't understand why people hate canids so much while their own mutts sleep on the couch.
Because too many people have dogs the size of a softball. We have a rule in our suburban house the daughter’s tiny dog can’t go outside alone - has to be escorted by the big labs - due to coyotes and eagles. Overkill, surely; worth the peace of mind for my daughter and wife, surely. All of life is ruled by suburban soccer mom’s haven’t you read?
 
Because too many people have dogs the size of a softball. We have a rule in our suburban house the daughter’s tiny dog can’t go outside alone - has to be escorted by the big labs - due to coyotes and eagles. Overkill, surely; worth the peace of mind for my daughter and wife, surely. All of life is ruled by suburban soccer mom’s haven’t you read?

That brings to mind the one time I was asked to shoot a coyote. My nonsoccermom wife was with me. It's a long story...
 
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I believe that Hemmingway (and Harrison) shows us how we all struggle at times with many of the same problems in life, with many of the same feelings (self doubt, self destructive, etc.)
Perhaps we can take some comfort in knowing that human struggles are shared and that we are not alone when we make mistakes.
THIS. All of the avante garde Hemingway hate for bravado and machismo is only revealing the reader whiffed on the deeper message. I still feel a little twinge in my chest every time I read For Whom the Bell Tolls.
 
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