Caribou Gear

"Tracking gun sales"

Nothing that isn't already being done IMO, financial institutions track everything already. Nothing but a bunch of feel good policy is all this is. The only way to stay off that radar is cash purchases. If you're using plastic it's tracked in every way imaginable. At the end of the day it's useless policy that still requires court issued search warrant subpoenas for this information to be released to gov't officials.
Even if that happens all you have is a date,time,location,purchase total, and a few other small items in the data received. It's not gonna say Jimmy Jon bought him a new rifle. Just some more news to get everyone's feathers ruffled a little more. I'm sure about the only thing this does is it enables the financial institutions to easily narrow down such a purchase if that subpoena shows up from a LEO agency after the fact that something happened.
 
So in a store like Cabelas or Scheels where the massively overwhelming majority of sales is clothes and caramel covered pretzels, all of those sales are going to go into this category. Walmart sells guns still, don't they? Are they considered a "gun store" then?
Doesn't seem like its going to narrow it down much.
 
brownbear932008 said:
Nothing that isn't already being done IMO, financial institutions track everything already. Nothing but a bunch of feel good policy is all this is. The only way to stay off that radar is cash purchases. If you're using plastic it's tracked in every way imaginable. At the end of the day it's useless policy that still requires court issued search warrant subpoenas for this information to be released to gov't officials.
Even if that happens all you have is a date,time,location,purchase total, and a few other small items in the data received. It's not gonna say Jimmy Jon bought him a new rifle. Just some more news to get everyone's feathers ruffled a little more. I'm sure about the only thing this does is it enables the financial institutions to easily narrow down such a purchase if that subpoena shows up from a LEO agency after the fact that something happened.
Click to expand...
If anything the category makes my finances more secure… $1500 on europtic… checks out… $2000 at crate and barrel… shut it down shut it down now
 
mtnkid85 said:
So in a store like Cabelas or Scheels where the massively overwhelming majority of sales is clothes and caramel covered pretzels, all of those sales are going to go into this category. Walmart sells guns still, don't they? Are they considered a "gun store" then?
Doesn't seem like its going to narrow it down much.
Click to expand...
Exactly the card company isn't gonna know the difference between a dozen night crawlers or ammunition unless, they can in someway break down the actual purchased items of which I've never seen. (I work in this stuff daily) On top of that financial institution transactions are covered by the Banking Secrecy Act which is pretty stringent rules that they must adhere to in regards to releasing any information. Gov't agencies must also follow those rules as well. Most all of this information is what is called 6e information on top of that which is highly guarded grand jury information.
 
brownbear932008 said:
Even if that happens all you have is a date,time,location,purchase total, and a few other small items in the data received. It's not gonna say Jimmy Jon bought him a new rifle.
Click to expand...
Depends on in store data. In any store that uses computers (modern cash registers), the credit card transaction number will be tied to the full itemized and detailed store receipt.
 
VikingsGuy said:
Depends on in store data. In any store that uses computers (modern cash registers), the credit card transaction number will be tied to the full itemized and detailed store receipt.
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Agreed. The whole tracking is totally moot at this point.
 
brownbear932008 said:
Exactly the card company isn't gonna know the difference between a dozen night crawlers or ammunition unless, they can in someway break down the actual purchased items of which I've never seen. (I work in this stuff daily) On top of that financial institution transactions are covered by the Banking Secrecy Act which is pretty stringent rules that they must adhere to in regards to releasing any information. Gov't agencies must also follow those rules as well. Most all of this information is what is called 6e information on top of that which is highly guarded grand jury information.
Click to expand...
Credit card sales more and more provide item level detail by general category code. The theory is it helps the store and the consumer to know that $124 was spent on "food" and $75 on "electronics" when a person charges at a Target for example. This started as a money management and marketing "feature", but some banks are talking about forcing vendors to include "firearms" and "ammunition" as categories and then refusing payment on those. Hasn't happened yet but soon enough someone will try it.

It is the unsuprising reaction to Heller. If guns can't be banned outright then they will be encumbered by so many strings and inconvieniences that many people and companies will just opt out "voluntarily". Just look at the hundreds and hundreds of Roe-era "administrative" lawys each making abortions just a bit harder to access. This is the nature of modern politics - all out war on a few sacred cows.
 
wllm said:
But who cares? Why does it matter if visa knows I bought a tikka?
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Some of the credit card clearing houses and banking groups are talking about adopting a "PayPal-like" contractual term that their cards cannot be used for this category of sales and they will not remit payment to the stores for such items. It is not government action - it is freedom of contract, so 2A and Heller are irrelevant. This is not pie in the sky - it made the news in NY last year and got mixed public reaction.
 
VikingsGuy said:
Some of the credit card clearing houses and banking groups are talking about adopting a "PayPal-like" contractual term that their cards cannot be used for this category of sales and they will not remit payment to the stores for such items. It is not government action - it is freedom of contract, so 2A and Heller are irrelevant. This is not pie in the sky - it made the news in NY last year and got mixed public reaction.
Click to expand...
How would they handle something like Cabela's, I guess it would have to be an itemized entry... can't imagine Cabelas/Scheels etc are would just walk away from firearm sales or go cash only.

I thought it was Citi bank that did that and it was on the vendor end, like any company that banked with Citi couldn't sell high capacity mags etc. but that it didn't effect citi bank card holders? Same with BOA

The Gun and Ammo sector does what $21B of business every year... yeah there will be a credit card for buying guns. If people get real zealot-y I might have to take out a new card, but in the long run not worried about it.
 
Big Picture. If you trust your local, state and federal government on the issue of guns (not just today, but 10-15 years from now), and you trust plaintiff's lawyers and gun "safety" NGOs to not overreach, and you trust large corporations to not allow internal progressive pressure to effect their business decisions regarding firearms, then this is much ado about nothing. If you do not feel fully comfortable with all of the preceding, then this is a BIG deal - much bigger than bump stocks, "solvent traps", and forearm stabilizers.
 
wllm said:
How would they handle something like Cabela's, I guess it would have to be an itemized entry... can't imagine Cabelas/Scheels etc are would just walk away from firearm sales or go cash only.

I thought it was Citi bank that did that and it was on the vendor end, like any company that banked with Citi couldn't sell high capacity mags etc. but that it didn't effect citi bank card holders? Same with BOA

The Gun and Ammo sector does what $21B of business every year... yeah there will be a credit card for buying guns. If people get real zealot-y I might have to take out a new card, but in the long run not worried about it.
Click to expand...
Just like PayPal. They catch some and not others. But as big data continues it will become increasingly easy. CC companies already gets a lot of receipt detail from big stores to run their money management tools.
 
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