cjcj
New member
why is it ok in some state`s to bait and not in other`s? is it unethical? does baiting create campground bear`s?
to bait or not to bait., that is the question? BEAR`St
- Thread starter cjcj
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BuzzH
Well-known member
The reason its ok to bait in some states and not others is because each state has the right to make its own laws and regulations concerning such issues.
The game and its management is controled by each individual state(they own the wildlife).
The game and its management is controled by each individual state(they own the wildlife).
cjcj
New member
U.S.A. outfitter`s doesn`t think so , didn`t they sue in court,saying states don`t own their wildlife?
BuzzH
Well-known member
The states own the wildlife, end of story.
USO is pissing in the wind, tied up in a legal battle they are sure to lose.
USO is pissing in the wind, tied up in a legal battle they are sure to lose.
cjcj
New member
but that wasn`t the original question anyway? unethical? campground bear`s?
cjcj
New member
i guess i ain`t the only one NOT getting laid tonight! actualy oak you got 1 of three right ! there were three question`s.
cjcj
New member
that`s a good reply, do you have to draw a bear tag in colorado,other states?
We don't have a spring season here. There's a month long fall season (September) that you must draw for. Or you can buy an over the counter tag that's only good during the same rifle season that you hunt deer and elk. If you draw a Sept. tag and don't kill, you can use it during your rifle deer/elk season.
Oak
Oak
Moosie
Grand poopa
why is it ok in some state`s to bait and not in other`s?
Some states have passed laws so There is NO bear baiting. Idaho has fortunately beaten any new laws that have tried to creap in Prohibiting it.
is it unethical?
HAHA, Ethical ? Whts Ethical, Someone will tell you Hunting with a rifle is Unehtical, Ethical lies within the Hunter. Jsut like GAME ranch's, Ethical or not ? Depends who ya are I guess.... I think It's Ethical.
does baiting create campground bear`s?
I don'
t think It makes Campground bears, Bears take a long tiime to get used to coming into the BAit site, You don't just dump crap and they cpome running in. Takes a long time.. Sometimes YEARS to get bears to consistantly come in.
Some states have passed laws so There is NO bear baiting. Idaho has fortunately beaten any new laws that have tried to creap in Prohibiting it.
is it unethical?
HAHA, Ethical ? Whts Ethical, Someone will tell you Hunting with a rifle is Unehtical, Ethical lies within the Hunter. Jsut like GAME ranch's, Ethical or not ? Depends who ya are I guess.... I think It's Ethical.
does baiting create campground bear`s?
I don'
t think It makes Campground bears, Bears take a long tiime to get used to coming into the BAit site, You don't just dump crap and they cpome running in. Takes a long time.. Sometimes YEARS to get bears to consistantly come in.
cjcj
New member
iwas just asking what everyone thought, i don`t have a problem w/baiting them either, just exploring what might be some of the reason`s the anti- baiter`s use to get it banned?
Ithaca 37
New member
I really don't get involved in the baiting issue, mostly because I prefer to hunt bears by sighting and stalking. But for any good wildlife management program there should be as many management tools available as possible. Idaho probably has the best bear management program in the country. It's very well tuned and the annual harvest of sows and boars is about as close to the proper ratio as possible, usually within a couple of percentage points.
For many years it was run by the top bear biologist in North America. He's retired now, but if his guidelines are followed I doubt they'll ever have many problems in Idaho. He still keeps an eye on things here as he does consulting work and I'm sure he'd speak up if he saw a problem. As of a week ago when I last talked to him he was happy as a clam!
For many years it was run by the top bear biologist in North America. He's retired now, but if his guidelines are followed I doubt they'll ever have many problems in Idaho. He still keeps an eye on things here as he does consulting work and I'm sure he'd speak up if he saw a problem. As of a week ago when I last talked to him he was happy as a clam!
Moosie
Grand poopa
One benifite with BAiting is the Loss of MOMS is alot less. I know in the field when I come accross mom and cubs I always see mom first and if I was Spotting and stalking or "JUMP SHOOTING" MOM would get a bullet and I'd see the cubs run off...
With Baiting . Mom rarely comes in without cubs. Usually cubs first with MOM patroling the Parimitar for other bears. With the baiting it keeps the #'s up.
Hound hunting is the same way, We treed a bear a few years ago and MOM had wet Nipples. We never saw the CUB, but knew it was around. Another AWSOME way to keep from orphaning cubs
With Baiting . Mom rarely comes in without cubs. Usually cubs first with MOM patroling the Parimitar for other bears. With the baiting it keeps the #'s up.
Hound hunting is the same way, We treed a bear a few years ago and MOM had wet Nipples. We never saw the CUB, but knew it was around. Another AWSOME way to keep from orphaning cubs
cjcj
New member
well that`s a great reason [killing less sow`s w/cub`s] for baiting! i guess arizona is assbackward`s on their logic.
Tom
New member
The states don't own the wildlife, they just manage it. Only the hunter, after they legally tag one owns the dead one. Some states see the benefits of multiple management strategies, is the way I look at it. I think anti's create the anti-bear baiting. See Humane Society of the US and their campaign at their web site. Its full of anti's reasons to not bait bear.
I would think food in camp, creates campsite bears, but I haven't studied it in detail. Are there any studies about it?
I would think food in camp, creates campsite bears, but I haven't studied it in detail. Are there any studies about it?
Hey Tom, if you hit a deer, elk, etc. here in CO, they give a value of damage to the other party (the state of CO) for the animal killed. For example, many, many years ago the value of a deer was $400, ie., they would list $400 damage caused to the state. To me that means the state owns the animal.
Oak
Oak
BuzzH
Well-known member
Tom, you ever get off the game farm and out from behind the high fences?
The states absolutely do own the game that resides within the borders of the said states. Christ man, pull your head out.
The couple exceptions would be game farmed mutants and migratory waterfowl.
Tom spreading misinformation again.
Why do you suppose the states are able to enforce game laws, impose fines for poaching, etc. etc. etc. because they just manage the game? I dont think so.
Tom, for your reading enjoyment:
The President's Council on Environmental Quality has stressed that "under U.S. law, native wildlife belongs to the people (States); it is not private property, even on private land."9 Victor B. Scheffer points out that wildlife in the United States is the property of the people.. . . No animal may be reduced to private ownership except by permission of the state. Wild animals do not belong to the owner of the land upon which the animals live, though the owner can post his land against entry and thus restrain the public from using its property.10
Does that sound like the states dont own the animals to you Tom?
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-01-2003 21:14: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
The states absolutely do own the game that resides within the borders of the said states. Christ man, pull your head out.
The couple exceptions would be game farmed mutants and migratory waterfowl.
Tom spreading misinformation again.
Why do you suppose the states are able to enforce game laws, impose fines for poaching, etc. etc. etc. because they just manage the game? I dont think so.
Tom, for your reading enjoyment:
The President's Council on Environmental Quality has stressed that "under U.S. law, native wildlife belongs to the people (States); it is not private property, even on private land."9 Victor B. Scheffer points out that wildlife in the United States is the property of the people.. . . No animal may be reduced to private ownership except by permission of the state. Wild animals do not belong to the owner of the land upon which the animals live, though the owner can post his land against entry and thus restrain the public from using its property.10
Does that sound like the states dont own the animals to you Tom?
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-01-2003 21:14: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
Ithaca 37
New member
"In the United States, wildlife is the property of the citizens, held in trust by the government. For most species, the responsibility for wildlife management is the responsibility of the state governments......"
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/nwrc/research/nonlethal/why.html
Here's some info from the Texas A&M University site:
"Who owns wildlife? Common law, upheld by judicial
decision, says that wildlife is owned in common by all
citizens, and governments have the authority to manage
wildlife on our behalf....."
http://www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/1999/benson.htm
"Texas millionaire Clayton Williams, owner of a 90,000-acre ranch in Carbon County, and three other Wyoming ranchers recently lost their challenge to a Wyoming law that says the state owns all wildlife as a trustee for its citizens (HCN, 2/21/94). District Judge Clarence Brimmer ruled that wild animals are "a sort of common property whose control and regulation are to be exercised as a trust for the benefit of the people." "
http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Article?article_id=276
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-01-2003 21:48: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/nwrc/research/nonlethal/why.html
Here's some info from the Texas A&M University site:
"Who owns wildlife? Common law, upheld by judicial
decision, says that wildlife is owned in common by all
citizens, and governments have the authority to manage
wildlife on our behalf....."
http://www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/1999/benson.htm
"Texas millionaire Clayton Williams, owner of a 90,000-acre ranch in Carbon County, and three other Wyoming ranchers recently lost their challenge to a Wyoming law that says the state owns all wildlife as a trustee for its citizens (HCN, 2/21/94). District Judge Clarence Brimmer ruled that wild animals are "a sort of common property whose control and regulation are to be exercised as a trust for the benefit of the people." "
http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Article?article_id=276
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-01-2003 21:48: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2000
- Messages
- 11,711
I think Buzz answered the question the way I would have.
I'm glad there are places to bait bears and run them with dogs.. and I'm also real glad that there are place where it's off limits. I hope Idaho and other places where it's currently allowed can keep it going, as there are places in that state where it's restricted also.
I've seen 6 stud bears this spring. Two of them got whacked, two got away, and the others (one of them just a couple hours ago) I spotted while looking around with my 2-year old who's now seen a couple bears himself that would qualify as rug-worthy bears by almost any hunter.
All of them were on isolated south facing slopes, where they would come to feed on early greening grass.
It's nice when they aren't pulled away from where they would traditionally spend thier time to visit somebody's pile of garbage, donuts, dogfood, or meat tallow. Just my opinion..
I'm glad there are places to bait bears and run them with dogs.. and I'm also real glad that there are place where it's off limits. I hope Idaho and other places where it's currently allowed can keep it going, as there are places in that state where it's restricted also.
I've seen 6 stud bears this spring. Two of them got whacked, two got away, and the others (one of them just a couple hours ago) I spotted while looking around with my 2-year old who's now seen a couple bears himself that would qualify as rug-worthy bears by almost any hunter.
All of them were on isolated south facing slopes, where they would come to feed on early greening grass.
It's nice when they aren't pulled away from where they would traditionally spend thier time to visit somebody's pile of garbage, donuts, dogfood, or meat tallow. Just my opinion..
