Throwing the Little Ones Back

[BuzzH]

Ten Beers,

I never said they wouldnt have found animals or enjoyed their hunts...

Lets just say their odds increase dramatically when someone else has everything locked in months in advance, glasses well, scouts well, helps with pack-outs, chooses good areas, helps with applications, etc. And, my friends and family appreciate the help.

I've been on the receiving end too...and I give full credit where its due...ask AZ402 about that.

I know I more than likely could have found a coues deer on my own...but when Stan and his buddy Richard offered to help out...my odds increased dramatically, and I really appreciated the help.

Sorry you fail to comprehend something so simple.

 

[FLIPPER]

Outside peeking in....

Buzz has offered to help me locate,hunt and kill elk/muledeer if and when I can make the trip. Oak has also

 

[Ten Bears]

I take it BUZZ didn't catch any steelhead in 2005, and no one knows of a place I can go fish for bull trout in MT (I'll look into that myself).

FLIPPER, good for you. I'd help you find and hunt deer/elk/bear in ID, but you'd have to do the killing part on your own because if I helped you kill it there might be a question of ethics involved.... There is nothing wrong with helping others with their hunt, but ultimately it's their hunt, not mine unless I take an animal.

 

[MattK]

TB- Short answer, you can legally catch bull trout and keep bull trout in the state of Montana. The restrictions are very, very high on how to deal with bull trout due to their threatened species status. Swan Lake is one lake you can have a 1 bull trout possession. You can either call the MTFWP or look on their website for further information. I called the FWP and asked about how to deal with bull trout, officially. By the pictures Elkchsr took, he could definitely be in trouble. By definition "taking" a bull trout means to kill it. Being they are a fragile fish, taking the slime off of one by letting them roll on the ground or by gripping them in the gill area could easily be construed as "taking". The FWP does little to enforce this but has the ability to do so. A person has to also be very careful to not "target" bull trout. Fishing in certain waters with certain baits can be construed as "targetting" bull trout and the fisherman can be fined for this violation also...I figured if I was going to call the FWP for bull trout regs I may as well get all the info.

 

[mtmiller]

It is unlawful to intentionally fish for bull trout in any waters except Swan Lake, Hungry Horse Reservoir, Lake Koocanusa and the South Forth of the Flathead River, all in northwestern Montana.

http://fwp.mt.gov/education/fishingeducation/native.html

 

[mtmiller]

Take - To harass, harm, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect, or to attempt to engage in any such conduct; may include significant habitat modification or degradation if it kills or injures wildlife by significantly impairing essential behavioral patterns including breeding, feeding, or sheltering.
Defn from USFWS

 

[MattK]

mtmiller- Do you think the pictures elkchsr posted would signify the "taking" of a bull trout? I'm just curious. According to the man at the MTFWP I spoke to he said (by my description) it would be a fairly strong case for the definition of "take".

 

[Ten Bears]

Thank you MATT & MTMILLER. My next stop was the MTFWP website. Since I can't tell by the photos whether ELKCHSR's intent was to keep these fish or release them, or the day(s) that these photos involved I don't think there is much room for anything more then asking him questions about his actions/intents. Unethical, not if those fish were caught on different days, or is the same fish in two photos, or bonked was on the head to take them home.

 

[MattK]

TB- He was fishing in Restricted Waters as you can only fish in 4 waters for them. If he bonked them on the head...he was poaching. I believe he released them but at the very least he was unethical in the dealing with an endangered species and according to definition, he was against the law in handling these endangered species.

 

[Ten Bears]

MATTy, I don't know what water he was fishing (open or closed), or even when (year)the photos were taken, and when the restrcitions went into place. IF he was fishing in closed water against restrictions; THEN there would be an issue of ethics in catching and handling the fish, but as it is I don't have any proof otherwise just your ASSUMPTION.

 

[Ten Bears]

I would prefer seeing pictures of the dead animals that Buzz finds than to read stupid comments from the 3rd grade fat-assed ATV rider....... Isn't that what a Hunting Board is all about?

J'QUEERVO, are you saying that BUZZ killed all those animals for the other hunters to tag and pose with him?

 

[mtmiller]

mtmiller- Do you think the pictures elkchsr posted would signify the "taking" of a bull trout? I'm just curious. According to the man at the MTFWP I spoke to he said (by my description) it would be a fairly strong case for the definition of "take".

My opinion, if it was not on one of the four lakes mentioned, yes, I would consider it a "taking". I am just a peon BLM biologist, so my opinion is just that, an opinion.

I think this is more of a USFWS issue than FWP, but obviosly both agencies should have concerns.

This is just my opinion, but I don't think 'chsr should be fined for his actions. However, I do wish he would have stepped up and for the rocord stated that he made a mistake and has learned from it. I think he still believes he did nothing wrong, but I would hope the majority realizes this is not true. I would hope if he was in the same situation in the future he would do things differenlty. With his responces on the thread and the original one, I don't think that will be the case.

 

[mtmiller]

MATTy, I don't know what water he was fishing (open or closed), or even when (year)the photos were taken, and when the restrcitions went into place. IF he was fishing in closed water against restrictions; THEN there would be an issue of ethics in catching and handling the fish, but as it is I don't have any proof otherwise just your ASSUMPTION.

TB, pretty sure 'chsr posted the date when he caught the fish in the original post and he has mentioned in this post exactly where he caught them. Too much investigating for me and I don't care enough to check it out, but pretty sure all the info. has been reported. miller...out

 

[The Hedgehog]

I didn't read any of this thread, just noticed the pictures. I didn't know Ted Kaczynski was a fisherman... and when did he get out of prison?

 

[JoseCuervo]

J'QUEERVO, are you saying that BUZZ killed all those animals for the other hunters to tag and pose with him?

Ten Beers,
Is your poor reading comprehension due to your limited 3rd grade edjumacation or excessive alcohol consumption?

 

[Ten Bears]

MTMILLER, I see he posted at the first lake at Twin Lakes inlet. Means nothing to me for location, I don't know where twin lakes in MT is or when the photo's were taken. I would expect that ELKCHSR would have learned something from the incident if he had done something wrong and it was brought to his attention.

 

[Washington Hunter]

TB, Elk Chasers fish pictures were posted several months back, and there was a thread that went on forever discussing the issue. Somehow I dont think you were in on that one. Maybe if you do a search you can come up with it.

 

[JoseCuervo]

MTMILLER, I see he posted at the first lake at Twin Lakes inlet. Means nothing to me for location, I don't know where twin lakes in MT is or when the photo's were taken. I would expect that ELKCHSR would have learned something from the incident if he had done something wrong and it was brought to his attention.

Ten Beers,
Your assumption that the Cheese would have learned something is a bit generous.

You can read thru the previous thread and see that he never admitted remorse, refused to acknowledge he did anything wrong, and refused to accept responsibility for his actions.

http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24666&page=1

 

[Ten Bears]

Thanks WH, I started looking but couldn't go back that far. I could only go back to OCT 05, and it must have happened before that.

Thanks for the link J'Q'. As I read I see what you mean. It has been my assumption that fish which need to be released immediately shouldn't be removed from the water, or handled anymore then necessary (sometimes that requires removing them from the water).

 

[Washington Hunter]

Jose found it. He must have had it saved to his favorites.