Threat to Wyoming migration

[AvidIndoorsman]

At least we can find them.

Or better yet, show me 3,000 abandoned solar projects and we'll call it apples to apples.

In this specific example the surface use of the solar project is pretty similar in size to the fully permitted OG project roads + pads + gathering etc.

700 acres of solar to ~ 1000 acres of OG ( I'm taking a WAG based on 227 miles of road at 20ft wide + a reasonable pad (essentially halfing the number of wells per pad they are claiming as that seems absurd to me) + add in some gathering lines.

Honestly it's a pretty fair comparison. To my knowledge the solar company doesn't not have to pay a upfront about for clean up and disposal.

As far as bankrupt solar... well remember Solyndra? I believe the Mildura Solar Concentrator Power Station was just left to rot... maybe it got cleaned up by now it's been 6 years.

The solar industry is in it's infancy, if you could go back in time wouldn't you want to head off the drilling of many of those orphaned wells. I think we are in that moment for solar.

I'm not anti-solar, or wind and I'm certainly not saying OG development is the answer. I'm trying to point out that both of those types of projects require massive surface disturbances, the seem to get a free pass from the public and regulatory agencies, and no one seems to be willing to look or think about what is going to happen 30 years down the road.

For reference we assume that it will cost between 20-50k to plug and remediate every well on our books. Obviously you don't want to have to do a ton at once so we try to plug them as soon as it makes economic sense.

In the end I don't want to end up with a bunch of trash our public lands.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

who foots the bill for pulling 700 acres of panels out of the ground and disposing of them.

whoever they convinced to give them the reclamation bond for those 700 acres.

 

[Irrelevant]

In this specific example the surface use of the solar project is pretty similar in size to the fully permitted OG project roads + pads + gathering etc.

700 acres of solar to ~ 1000 acres of OG ( I'm taking a WAG based on 227 miles of road at 20ft wide + a reasonable pad (essentially halfing the number of wells per pad they are claiming as that seems absurd to me) + add in some gathering lines.

Honestly it's a pretty fair comparison. To my knowledge the solar company doesn't not have to pay a upfront about for clean up and disposal.

As far as bankrupt solar... well remember Solyndra? I believe the Mildura Solar Concentrator Power Station was just left to rot... maybe it got cleaned up by now it's been 6 years.

The solar industry is in it's infancy, if you could go back in time wouldn't you want to head off the drilling of many of those orphaned wells. I think we are in that moment for solar.

I'm not anti-solar, or wind and I'm certainly not saying OG development is the answer. I'm trying to point out that both of those types of projects require massive surface disturbances, the seem to get a free pass from the public and regulatory agencies, and no one seems to be willing to look or think about what is going to happen 30 years down the road.

For reference we assume that it will cost between 20-50k to plug and remediate every well on our books. Obviously you don't want to have to do a ton at once so we try to plug them as soon as it makes economic sense.

In the end I don't want to end up with a bunch of trash our public lands.

I don't know where I got sucked into this gas or solar argument. I don't support either, at least not in this case nor in this spot. It sounds like Wyoming at least has a mechanism in place to force and/or pay for reclamation vs the feds and just giving candy away to whomever asks.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Obviously these are range fences, no relationship at all with energy.

The highest concentrations of antelope I have seen in the Red Desert, several years ago when I drew the tag, were around well sites.

I've experienced the same

 

[bullbugle307]

Do you think those well sites attracted the pronghorn, or do you think they just happened to be where the pronghorn wanted to be? I would imagine if you put a bunch of well sites near a limiting factor like water in the desert, the pronghorn would have no choice but spent their time close by.

 

[88man]

The surface disruption of a OG well site is minimal compared to a wind farm or solar. Now the people in the wildlifes bedroom all the time thats a different argument.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Do you think those well sites attracted the pronghorn, or do you think they just happened to be where the pronghorn wanted to be? I would imagine if you put a bunch of well sites near a limiting factor like water in the desert, the pronghorn would have no choice but spent their time close by.

I doubt they attract the pronghorn. More likely the pronghorn liked that habitat before the oil wells were installed. I really don't know though. The sites sure didn't prevent the pronghorn from using the area, IME.

 

[bullbugle307]

That's what I figured. I was just curious what your guys perspective was on it.

 

[Big Fin]

The Jonah project if fully develop will likely be 113 pads (possibly half that) at 4 acres a pad... so ~450, and as I said will take decades to build out, if full development happens at all which is extremely unlikely. I think at most we see 20-50 acres of surface use.

For perspective this is the Sweetwater project, which is just down the road. 703 acres of surface use. This project actually blocked pronghorn winter migration and sent the entire herd into the highway. This isn't a speculation on what could happen as is the Jonah project, this happened this winter.

Antelope hindered by solar farm

More than 1,000 antelope were bottlenecked near the Sweetwater Solar facility west of Green River over the weekend as they attempted to migrate to winter ranges. The antelope were forced onto Wyo. Highway 372. According to Mark Zornes, Regional Wildlife Management Coordinator for the Wyoming...

www.greenriverstar.com

View attachment 129267View attachment 129265

So, with the winter Wyoming had, does anyone know how this Sweetwater Solar project and its disruption of the antelope migration has impacted the antelope herds? No impacts would be great. I suspect if it had significant impact, it could easily be discounted as "harsh winter" and the weather cycle will get the blame for such consequences.

Interesting that the County was informed by WY G&F of the impacts this solar project was going to have on antelope. Other than a bit of a wider easement along the highway to mitigate highway collisions, I can't find what else was done to mitigate the impacts on a critical migration route.

Any Wyoming guys have firsthand account of how it might have impacted antelope this winter?

 

[88man]

Oil Price Crash Opens A Window Of Opportunity For Renewables | OilPrice.com

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[Dunning Kruger]

The great thing about science is that it offers actual answers to questions that we might debate...

The bad thing about it is that those answers are biased toward the agenda of whoever is financing the "science."

Question all of it, dont let some declaration of "this is SCIENCE" make us feel it is beyond reproach or examination

 

[Dougfirtree]

The bad thing about it is that those answers are biased toward the agenda of whoever is financing the "science."

Question all of it, dont let some declaration of "this is SCIENCE" make us feel it is beyond reproach or examination

A key part of real science is peer review and replication. You're right that there is bad "science" out there, so I think your overall point is valid, but it's not as hard to tell the difference as some would like us to believe and that argument gets used all the time to cast doubt, for political/financial reasons, on good science.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Any Wyoming guys have firsthand account of how it might have impacted antelope this winter?

There were some larger than normal vehicle collision in the area in early winter. Other than these I have not seen or heard of any other significant die off of this herd either related to the solar project or just normal winter mortality. Overall the winter in this part of the state was not particularly harsh. About normal.
In fairness to this project, it is not out of the ordinary for large numbers of pronghorn to be taken out by cars, trucks or trains or for groups to herd up along fence lines in a blizzard and die like jm77 alluded to, in this part of the state. The hits in December are not an anomaly.

 

[MtnRambler]

First (on topic), @mulecreek, I’m really glad to hear the impact appears minimal. I did my master’s thesis on the conservation of this pronghorn migration ~15 years ago, and I’m always interested in hearing the latest news.

Second (slightly off topic), @Dunning Kruger, social scientists who have studied the interplay between science/society have long understood that with the exception of the most trivial cases, science (and information more broadly) cannot compel specific political decisions. While there is certainly funding bias that can influence scientific research, I’d argue that this is not the norm. One of the larger challenges we face is that our scientific understanding is often either intrinsically uncertain or can be interpreted in a broad enough way that it can be used to justify a range of competing political view points. This is among the reasons—I am skeptical like you—whenever I hear some say ‘the science says…’ I.e. The science is always much more complicated than narrow special interest advocates let on, and understanding the complexity is important.

At the same time, in conservation, we rarely have the luxury of having perfect scientific answers. Yet, we still need to make decisions that impact the wild things and places we care about. And, even if we had perfect certainty on the science, in a democratic society there are those that don’t share our values that we still need to navigate around. However, from my perspective, the more factual information (science or otherwise) we can use to triangulate through that uncertainty, the better off we will be—even if that information is not perfect.

 

[Irrelevant]

‘Path of the Pronghorn’ protections delayed as development proceeds - WyoFile

Protections for big game species moving between seasonal ranges were reworked at the behest of industry in 2019. The process has been at a standstill since, leaving dozens of migration routes undesignated.

wyofile.com

I expected the outcome in the article above^. Wildlife always takes it in the shorts.

But I thought this link was more surprising, esp considering many of the statements made within this thread, and the fact that this study came out before this thread was started.

In the Anticline, pronghorn pushed out

Jackson Hole pronghorn’s critical winter range doubles as one of the largest natural gas fields in the U.S. But new research shows that the native tawny-and-white residents are avoiding, and

www.jhnewsandguide.com

 

[bonedogg]

I love the passion gents, but let's get real. the wells do not affect the antelope and in the end lets work together for universal use of "our lands'. if you stop one user, you may be the next pushed out with your own antics. Imagine this, stop energy development, energy lobbies to stop you from hunting and fishing, then we can all sit on the sidelines and watch.........have some faith in those that manage our public lands, if not time to stand up and see what a better job you can do for low$$$.

OMG the sky is falling is all I can hear..... the taxes them energy companies pay to each county is more than the whole hunting community pays to the state........

 

[wytex]

Sorry, not all gents here but yes they do affect the animals.
We certainly support multi use of our lands in Wyoming but I believe for the most part we all want responsible use and that means taking wildlife populations into consideration when making decisions on their habitat.
Migration routes need protecting. They don't just take another route if we impeded them, they die trying to get through.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

‘Path of the Pronghorn’ protections delayed as development proceeds - WyoFile

Protections for big game species moving between seasonal ranges were reworked at the behest of industry in 2019. The process has been at a standstill since, leaving dozens of migration routes undesignated.

wyofile.com

I expected the outcome in the article above^. Wildlife always takes it in the shorts.

But I thought this link was more surprising, esp considering many of the statements made within this thread, and the fact that this study came out before this thread was started.

In the Anticline, pronghorn pushed out

Jackson Hole pronghorn’s critical winter range doubles as one of the largest natural gas fields in the U.S. But new research shows that the native tawny-and-white residents are avoiding, and

www.jhnewsandguide.com

View attachment 256324

Thanks for sharing, leaves me with a ton of questions. Would love to have that collar data to compare to Spud dates, Frack dates, etc etc.

Is it actual drilling related, do they avoid active pads and then return after the well is completed?

How variable were migrations before, what are they like now as the anticline field is maturing?

The powder now has winter stips on fed leases, did the anticline, presumably no and thats why stips were put in place in the first place.

Interesting comparing that article with the migration map...

WESTERN MIGRATIONS 2.0

westernmigrations.net

 

[Irrelevant]

Thanks for sharing, leaves me with a ton of questions. Would love to have that collar data to compare to Spud dates, Frack dates, etc etc.

Is it actual drilling related, do they avoid active pads and then return after the well is completed?

How variable were migrations before, what are they like now as the anticline field is maturing?

The powder now has winter stips on fed leases, did the anticline, presumably no and thats why stips were put in place in the first place.

Interesting comparing that article with the migration map...

WESTERN MIGRATIONS 2.0

westernmigrations.net

View attachment 256598

All great questions. Though it seems like we'll never know many of them because it requires predevelopment studies, that don't have a current funding mechanism.

When you say active pads do you actively drilling or actively pumping or both?

It would be interesting to see a requirement to do comprehensive tracking for 5-10 years prior to development as part of any leasing on federal lands. But alas I feel that would be deemed gov't overreach, and unnecessary permitting costs and time delays. Though I could also see the benefit if, in fact, energy development doesn't adversely impact wildlife in the long term.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

When you say active pads do you actively drilling or actively pumping or both?

Drilling, my guess is that the study occurred at a time you could drill/frack in the winter and pronghorn were avoiding the noise/ activity versus a pad that is for all intents and purposes just sitting their silently.

Something to keep in mind is that private aka fee lands don’t have the same rules and fed lands. Individual landowners might have surface use rules, but in general you can drill year round from a regulatory perspective. That being said a lot of the big landowners have hunters, and livestock operations and shutdown drilling for long periods of time.

The rules in WY surrounding OG are very much a work in progress and constantly evolving and there are all sorts of funky idiosyncrasies.

For instance you have to abide by stips if your drill site is inside a unit with fed leasehold, but if you have an adjacent lease that isn’t part of the drilling spacing unit, you can drill from that site into the unit without being subject to the stips.

In general this have really slowed down drilling and development in WY versus other areas.

I’ve worked PA/WV/TX/UT/OK/WY and WY is the only state where wildlife is a major factor in well planning discussions and a primary driver of the rig schedule.