Thinking about a redundant wildcat

[nhenry]

Oh, and just to clarify...
The Creedmoor was designed to fit long, heavy match bullets in an AR type MAGAZINE without the bullet encroaching into the powder.
The ACTION length had nothing to do with it.

You sure you’re not thinking of a 6.5 Grendel?

I did my research before posting. Even if it were designed for AR-10 magazines, it would still be short action length. Both lengths were based around the 308, which coincidentally has an OAL of 2.81”; a standard AR mag has an OAL of 2.815”.

In my research today after reading your comment, I did not find anything about it being for an AR at all, and in fact found in favor of bolt actions, which wasn’t mentioned a lot. It was designed for long range target shooting, which is typically done with a bolt gun.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I’m thinking the 155 Hammer Hunter or a 145 LRX. Either would be adequate for my needs all around the board

CEB Lazer 145 might be worth a look too. More impressive on paper than both of those options and shoots well out of my SAUM so far.

 

[winmag]

Debbie Downer Alert: Seems like a good way to spend a bunch of money on reamers and dies just to get the same performance as a factory cartridge.

The idea of creating the perfect cartridge is fun though. Carry on.

 

[nhenry]

Debbie Downer Alert: Seems like a good way to spend a bunch of money on reamers and dies just to get the same performance as a factory cartridge.

The idea of creating the perfect cartridge is fun though. Carry on.

You are for sure correct. I'm not even sure I want to because of that aspect, but if I get the inkling to with my next build, I think it'll be neat

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Debbie Downer Alert: Seems like a good way to spend a bunch of money on reamers and dies just to get the same performance as a factory cartridge.

The idea of creating the perfect cartridge is fun though. Carry on.

And deal with additional brass prep, fire forming, and any possible issues from making a case neck out of brass that wasn't intended to be a case neck. No thanks.

Edit to add: The other thing that I wonder about is how all of the chamber to brass clearances play out in some of these wildcats. Hornady (who has been the leader in cartridge "optimization" among the big companies IMO) designed, tested, and came to market with the PRCs which many have been fighting with clicker issues due to insufficient clearance at the case web. If Hornady didn't get it right I'd be worried about getting it right on a wildcat of my design.

 

[winmag]

And deal with additional brass prep, fire forming, and any possible issues from making a case neck out of brass that wasn't intended to be a case neck. No thanks.

Edit to add: The other thing that I wonder about is how all of the chamber to brass clearances play out in some of these wildcats. Hornady (who has been the leader in cartridge "optimization" among the big companies IMO) designed, tested, and came to market with the PRCs which many have been fighting with clicker issues due to insufficient clearance at the case web. If Hornady didn't get it right I'd be worried about getting it right on a wildcat of my design.

This reminds me of a recent conversation I had with a good friend and long-time competitive shooter.

Handloaders seem to travel on a continuum:

1. The new reloader wants to get some extra velocity and accuracy out of whatever rifle they already have. [example, 30-06]
2. Transition to speed demon magnums to get the most performance possible. [28 Nosler]
3. Transition to the opposite of speed demon, to maximum efficiency in cartridges. [6.5 Creedmoor]
4. Desire to make the perfect cartridge, why couldn't the factories just get it right the first time? [Sherman's]
5. Say screw it and just shoot a 30-06 at everything. [30-06]

Some people get to a level and stay there. Some people cover all their bases. It's not to say one level is "better" than another. Personally I oscillate between speed demon magnums and screw it shoot a 30-06 at everything.

 

[p_ham]

This reminds me of a recent conversation I had with a good friend and long-time competitive shooter.

Handloaders seem to travel on a continuum:

1. The new reloader wants to get some extra velocity and accuracy out of whatever rifle they already have. [example, 30-06]
2. Transition to speed demon magnums to get the most performance possible. [28 Nosler]
3. Transition to the opposite of speed demon, to maximum efficiency in cartridges. [6.5 Creedmoor]
4. Desire to make the perfect cartridge, why couldn't the factories just get it right the first time? [Sherman's]
5. Say screw it and just shoot a 30-06 at everything. [30-06]

Some people get to a level and stay there. Some people cover all their bases. It's not to say one level is "better" than another. Personally I oscillate between speed demon magnums and screw it shoot a 30-06 at everything.

I don't think it's so much as getting it perfect. Just different. Even if ballistically the wildcat ends up as a duplicate of something else, the ride getting there is often enjoyable.

 

[winmag]

I don't think it's so much as getting it perfect. Just different. Even if ballistically the wildcat ends up as a duplicate of something else, the ride getting there is often enjoyable.

I agree. It’s an enjoyable part of the hobby and the overall learning process.

 

[nhenry]

I don't think it's so much as getting it perfect. Just different. Even if ballistically the wildcat ends up as a duplicate of something else, the ride getting there is often enjoyable.

-- of course coming from the guy who built a levergun in a necked down 45-70 lol.

You hit the nail on the head. It's super enjoyable to me to come up with all this stuff and devote time to thinking of how to make it work, what the performance would look like, hunts I'd take it on, etc.

My favorite platform is the T3x and the magazine prevents a reaching the lands with most 280 Ackley loads, so I'd like something kinda similar in performance but able to maximize the platform's capabilities with a standard bolt face.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

This reminds me of a recent conversation I had with a good friend and long-time competitive shooter.

Handloaders seem to travel on a continuum:

1. The new reloader wants to get some extra velocity and accuracy out of whatever rifle they already have. [example, 30-06]
2. Transition to speed demon magnums to get the most performance possible. [28 Nosler]
3. Transition to the opposite of speed demon, to maximum efficiency in cartridges. [6.5 Creedmoor]
4. Desire to make the perfect cartridge, why couldn't the factories just get it right the first time? [Sherman's]
5. Say screw it and just shoot a 30-06 at everything. [30-06]

Some people get to a level and stay there. Some people cover all their bases. It's not to say one level is "better" than another. Personally I oscillate between speed demon magnums and screw it shoot a 30-06 at everything.

Yeah, shooting has taken a backseat to other hobbies recently but i'm pretty stuck in the screw it and just use the "darlings of competitive shooting world" because there's usually pretty foolproof data and paths towards success available with them. I don't think i could make either of the 6.5x47s i've owned shoot poorly if I tried.

 

[std7mag]

If you build it, i may have to arrange to borrow your reamer & headspace gauges.
Sounds like something i'd like to try out!

I usually do my builds on Savage actions & rifles. No issue on mag length with them.

Maybe a 1:8 twist barrel to test some heavies at distance.
I'm seeing 197gr Sierra MatchKings available.

 

[nhenry]

If you build it, i may have to arrange to borrow your reamer & headspace gauges.
Sounds like something i'd like to try out!

I usually do my builds on Savage actions & rifles. No issue on mag length with them.

Maybe a 1:8 twist barrel to test some heavies at distance.
I'm seeing 197gr Sierra MatchKings available.

I have some 190 A-Tips that I want to work with at some point. They're just expensive so I haven't used them yet. I usually put a 1:8 on my 7mm rifles just in case I want to use heavies.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Humanity was created to explore, to find new horizons and set sail into the unkown. We are intellectual beasts, driven by an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and personal advancement. We strive to find new worlds, we seek new experiences. As a species, we know we are not trees, bound by roots into the earth, but are travelers who are destined to find new worlds.

Sally forth and make this happen. Explore the great undiscovered depths of this world. Be a human in all aspects.

But still, wash your hands and be nice to kids, kittens & puppies. Even Hitler like puppies, you animal.

 

[nhenry]

I've been going this over and over in my head and I think I've come up with one that'll be easy on the wallet and fit my needs.

I can't find anything on 9.3x62 wildcats, so this is me asking about it. I want to neck that case down to 7mm and sharpen the shoulders to 30 degrees. Has that been done?

 

[p_ham]

I've been going this over and over in my head and I think I've come up with one that'll be easy on the wallet and fit my needs.

I can't find anything on 9.3x62 wildcats, so this is me asking about it. I want to neck that case down to 7mm and sharpen the shoulders to 30 degrees. Has that been done?

I think they call that the 280 remington?

 

[nhenry]

I think they call that the 280 remington?

The 280 has a very slight rim and the 9.3x62 has a rebated rim if you look at the dimensions, and more case capacity in the 9.3x62. Besides, this whole thing is about a redundant wildcat.

 

[p_ham]

The 280 has a very slight rim and the 9.3x62 has a rebated rim if you look at the dimensions, and more case capacity in the 9.3x62. Besides, this whole thing is about a redundant wildcat.
View attachment 226082

The 280 doesn't have any more of a rim than 30-06. The 9.3 is only rebated. 006", I don't think it's enough to matter. The straighter case walls do help it out though.
Download Gordon's Reloading tool so you can mess around with case dimensions.
It's going to be hard to beat your 7mm RPM I think

 

[nhenry]

The 280 doesn't have any more of a rim than 30-06. The 9.3 is only rebated. 006", I don't think it's enough to matter. The straighter case walls do help it out though.
Download Gordon's Reloading tool so you can mess around with case dimensions.
It's going to be hard to beat your 7mm RPM I think

I was speaking very slightly, a .002” rim, but nonetheless protruding beyond the case head.

I agree that it’d be hard to beat the 7 rpm but that brass is harder to come by currently, and something Wind Gypsy said about trying to make a neck out of something that wasn’t a neck caught my attention. I think I’d still get solid performance above a 280 with this option.

 

[p_ham]

I was speaking very slightly, a .002” rim, but nonetheless protruding beyond the case head.

I agree that it’d be hard to beat the 7 rpm but that brass is harder to come by currently, and something Wind Gypsy said about trying to make a neck out of something that wasn’t a neck caught my attention. I think I’d still get solid performance above a 280 with this option.

That is a good point, forming cases sucks.
Is 9.3 brass available?

 

[nhenry]

That is a good point, forming cases sucks.
Is 9.3 brass available?

Actually, yeah. I was surprised. Almost all the major ammo manufacturer make ammo for it, and Lapua and Norma make custom brass for it. Nosler used to as well and I know there's still some floating around.