The perfect rifle

[Addicting]

I was just thinking. We get rifles and completely ho through them to make them as accurate as possible. We get a scope and lap the rings hoping for the best. We pick over bullet's and loads. And with all these thing so many of us do, we still have never seen a rifle that could shoot the perfect group. The one thing we don't seem to fuss over is the guy pulling the trigger! I shot a 100 yd group with my 25-06 years ago that measured .111". Smallest group I ever shot by a long way. Quit shooting the rifle right then, didn't figure I'd ever get that small a group again and it you ask, my 25-06 groups .111" at 100yds. Got the target to prove it!

But was the lettering pristine? Tom_Terrific

 

[VikingsGuy]

Coloring outside the lines here. To me a rifle's history is more attractive than its functioning, provided it is "hunting accurate," (insert personal parameters here).

Would you rather shoot this
View attachment 211890

or
View attachment 211892

The better question is, which hat would you rather wear?

 

[OntarioHunter]

How the hell is that direct quote taken out of context? You asked what you can do with an AR. An AR is nothing but a well designed, accurate, semi automatic rifle chambered in .223, .308, or several other cartridges and can be used to hunt anything that can be hunted with those cartridges.

The context of my post is ARs originally designed for warfare cannot be significantly altered from that design to make them appear to be weapons designed for something else. My Springfield does not remotely resemble the same gun my dad used to kill people during WWII. But it once very well could have been the same gun. When I said "what can you do with them" I was speaking about changing the appearance from warfare to sporting. What can you do? I have yet to see an AR upgraded to checkered walnut or high gloss bluing. As a sportsman and a disabled veteran I personally do not go in for the wannabe mankiller tacticool look. I did my time in the US Army and happy enough to leave that behind me. Like my dad, I didn't find it to be an experience filled with a lot of pleasant memories. It's a job that has to be done by those who have to do it. The govt said it was my turn and I had to do it. So I did. When it was over, it was over. Hunting game is a different job. My choice of equipment makes it clear enough that I'm not blurring the distinction. I also don't strut around the deer woods wearing digital camo bloused into my boots with a jungle hat on my head. Some guys do and that's fine. That's the image they prefer to project or cling to. I'll stick with RealTree and ball cap. Both images work just as well I'm sure. But people look at me and they're not thinking the wrong thoughts. Ordinarily I could care less what people think. I hate stereotypes. But THAT projected image crosses a line that I have established for myself. I don't judge others who do step over the line. I just don't want anyone else to judge me on that side of it. That is important to me, as I know it was for my dad. I'll never forget the night I called from basic training to tell him I had declined the offer for West Point. He was obviously disappointed. What an honor and a free education, etc., etc. "Dad, when you get right down to it, one way or another West Point teaches how to kill people for a living. That's not what I want to do with my life, not even for just the next eight years of it." Long silence. "I can respect that, son." We never spoke of it again. As a surgical tech in the South Pacific Dad didn't see a lot of combat (enough to get wounded) but he certainly saw plenty of the horrors of war in the hospitals. I hope that clears it up for you.

 

[MTLabrador]

The context of my post is ARs originally designed for warfare cannot be significantly altered from that design to make them appear to be weapons designed for something else. My Springfield does not remotely resemble the same gun my dad used to kill people during WWII. But it once very well could have been the same gun. When I said "what can you do with them" I was speaking about changing the appearance from warfare to sporting. What can you do? I have yet to see an AR upgraded to checkered walnut or high gloss bluing. As a sportsman and a disabled veteran I personally do not go in for the wannabe mankiller tacticool look. I did my time in the US Army and happy enough to leave that behind me. Like my dad, I didn't find it to be an experience filled with a lot of pleasant memories. It's a job that has to be done by those who have to do it. The govt said it was my turn and I had to do it. So I did. When it was over, it was over. Hunting game is a different job. My choice of equipment makes it clear enough that I'm not blurring the distinction. I also don't strut around the deer woods wearing digital camo bloused into my boots with a jungle hat on my head. Some guys do and that's fine. That's the image they prefer to project or cling to. I'll stick with RealTree and ball cap. Both images work just as well I'm sure. But people look at me and they're not thinking the wrong thoughts. Ordinarily I could care less what people think. I hate stereotypes. But THAT projected image crosses a line that I have established for myself. I don't judge others who do step over the line. I just don't want anyone else to judge me on that side of it. That is important to me, as I know it was for my dad. I'll never forget the night I called from basic training to tell him I had declined the offer for West Point. He was obviously disappointed. What an honor and a free education, etc., etc. "Dad, when you get right down to it, one way or another West Point teaches how to kill people for a living. That's not what I want to do with my life, not even for just the next eight years of it." Long silence. "I can respect that, son." We never spoke of it again. As a surgical tech in the South Pacific Dad didn't see a lot of combat (enough to get wounded) but he certainly saw plenty of the horrors of war in the hospitals. I hope that clears it up for you.

That makes sense, I just don’t care that much about the appearance of the rifle. I don’t hunt big game with one, but I use them for work and they make a great coyote rifle. To each his own.

 

[Hammsolo]

Heh, yeah.

Honest shooters understand that they're the primary variable when it comes to accuracy.

It's also fun to tinker with rifles, and that's OK. I wish more folks could admit to themselves that they're simply enjoying a hobby rather than actually doing much to change their probability of hitting the target, but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with tinkering!

As a side note, I bet you'd get a good price for that hummer on gunbroker .

I didn’t know you could sell hummers on Gunbroker!

 

[Hammsolo]

Devil’s advocate, but is the history of an AR platform really any different than something like a 1903 Springfield? Both started as military rifles, people realized they were pretty great and they became popular for all kinds of other uses.

We really need more quick reaction options.

 

[duckhunt]

Just talking to a guy at work about this. Nobody is perfect every time and there is no such thing as a perfect rifle. I told him to buy a rifle within his budget and practice. I'm pretty sure that rifle will kill an animal just as dead as other rifles.

 

[CowboyLeroy]

I shot a 100 yd group with my 25-06 years ago that measured .111".

Now how did you manage to shoot a group smaller than one bullet?

 

[CowboyLeroy]

My Springfield does not remotely resemble the same gun my dad used to kill people during WWII.

My personal opinion is that anybody that alters a milsurp rifle for hunting should lose at least one finger. With that said, my curiosity won't let me scroll past without admitting I want to see what you or your father did to make it so different that it doesn't resemble a basic bolt rifle.

 

[Caseknife]

25-06 bullet has a diameter of .257, groups are measured center to center, or outside to outside and subtract one caliber. His group must have measured .368", therefore a .111" group.

A good friend, now gone to the Happy Hunting Grounds, had me shoot his 325 WSM while on a pig hunt. He couldn't hit crap. I sat down at the bench(picnic table) at the farmhouse and started to grab his ammo???? Three different loads in the one box, "Oh they are all the same", yeah, they were all 325 short mag, give him that.

 

[mtmuley]

Now how did you manage to shoot a group smaller than one bullet?

Paper groups are vastly overrated. mtmuley

 

[OntarioHunter]

My personal opinion is that anybody that alters a milsurp rifle for hunting should lose at least one finger. With that said, my curiosity won't let me scroll past without admitting I want to see what you or your father did to make it so different that it doesn't resemble a basic bolt rifle.

"Basic bolt" doesn't define military configuration. Here's the parent rifle and mine underneath. Really, the only significant similarity is the knob on the end of the striker and the extractor claw. You need to keep in mind that Mauser, upon which the Springfield was so closely designed that the US govt had to pay them for a patent infringement, produced sporting models of the same rifle almost from the beginning.

 

[HuntTalk Freak]

The context of my post is ARs originally designed for warfare cannot be significantly altered from that design to make them appear to be weapons designed for something else. My Springfield does not remotely resemble the same gun my dad used to kill people during WWII. But it once very well could have been the same gun. When I said "what can you do with them" I was speaking about changing the appearance from warfare to sporting. What can you do? I have yet to see an AR upgraded to checkered walnut or high gloss bluing. As a sportsman and a disabled veteran I personally do not go in for the wannabe mankiller tacticool look. I did my time in the US Army and happy enough to leave that behind me. Like my dad, I didn't find it to be an experience filled with a lot of pleasant memories. It's a job that has to be done by those who have to do it. The govt said it was my turn and I had to do it. So I did. When it was over, it was over. Hunting game is a different job. My choice of equipment makes it clear enough that I'm not blurring the distinction. I also don't strut around the deer woods wearing digital camo bloused into my boots with a jungle hat on my head. Some guys do and that's fine. That's the image they prefer to project or cling to. I'll stick with RealTree and ball cap. Both images work just as well I'm sure. But people look at me and they're not thinking the wrong thoughts. Ordinarily I could care less what people think. I hate stereotypes. But THAT projected image crosses a line that I have established for myself. I don't judge others who do step over the line. I just don't want anyone else to judge me on that side of it. That is important to me, as I know it was for my dad. I'll never forget the night I called from basic training to tell him I had declined the offer for West Point. He was obviously disappointed. What an honor and a free education, etc., etc. "Dad, when you get right down to it, one way or another West Point teaches how to kill people for a living. That's not what I want to do with my life, not even for just the next eight years of it." Long silence. "I can respect that, son." We never spoke of it again. As a surgical tech in the South Pacific Dad didn't see a lot of combat (enough to get wounded) but he certainly saw plenty of the horrors of war in

My personal opinion is that anybody that alters a milsurp rifle for hunting should lose at least one finger. With that said, my curiosity won't let me scroll past without admitting I want to see what you or your father did to make it so different that it doesn't resemble a basic bolt rifle.

I can stop my dog from eating her own shit from time to time but she’s gonna do what compels her when I’m not around. I’ve learned to ignore it just as it’s best to ignore that guys post; both are about as intellectually stimulating.

 

[CowboyLeroy]

"Basic bolt" doesn't define military configuration. Here's the parent rifle and mine underneath. Really, the only significant similarity is the knob on the end of the striker and the extractor claw. You need to keep in mind that Mauser, upon which the Springfield was so closely designed that the US govt had to pay them for a patent infringement, produced sporting models of the same rifle almost from the beginning. View attachment 211943View attachment 211944

Remove the rear sight, drill and tap, slap a new stock on it. Bingo bango.

If you damn Canadians aren't burning our white house you're butchering our rifles...

I joke. My grandpa was over there too.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Remove the rear sight, drill and tap, slap a new stock on it. Bingo bango.

If you damn Canadians aren't burning our white house you're butchering our rifles...

I joke. My grandpa was over there too.

I'm not sure if any Canadians were involved in burning the White House but they were a major component of the invasion force that failed to take New Orleans ... six weeks after the War of 1812 ended. The 93rd Sutherland Highlanders had ended their tour in Nova Scotia and were on their way home when rerouted to the Battle of New Orleans. I saved a retired US flag from the battlefield and it will cover my box at the end of the road. The last conflict between Americans and Canadians.

 

[Jpopejoy1980]

I’ve found that really getting know your trigger pull on a gun is the biggest factor in my accuracy.

 

[OntarioHunter]

On topic ... sort of. I just added a rail to my Springfield. Hated to do it but it was necessary if I wanted to change to quick detach rings and optional iron sights. Fortunately, the rail is "sporterized" with a cut-out to ease loading from the top so it's not entirely tacticool. Will it make the gun shoot tighter groups? Probably not. The rail, QD rings, and iron sights may make my Springfield more versatile for hunting in extreme terrain and weather, but at age seventy how much of that kind of hunting remains in my future? Not a lot. Maybe this "upgrade" will never pay for itself ... but it gave me something to do during a very cold winter. Worth every cent.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I’ve found that really getting know your trigger pull on a gun is the biggest factor in my accuracy.

And the great thing is this is an "upgrade" that doesn't cost a cent! Just a lot of dry firing.

 

[44hunter45]

Miss his input round here. mtmuley

Is that the legendary 220 Swift man?

 

[44hunter45]

Holy smokes there an awful lot of experts on HT!

So I like to envision that mathematically speaking, a 4 MOA shooter on a 4 MOA rifle COULD throw a perfect group. But they might still not be able to hit an elk in the lungs at 100 yards.

Repetition builds form, but more importantly, it breeds confidence. To the degree that I am CONFIDENT that no animal I ever missed could be blamed on the rifle. Except maybe that time my Simmons 44 Mag crosshairs looked like an X instead of a +. I did not take the shot.

There is something about that one rifle some of us are lucky enough to own that simply cannot miss. Mine is a shot out 1979 Ruger M77 in .30-'06. I've replaced the scope a couple of times and I still can't miss with it.