The ballistic tip: theory VS reality

[danr55]

If any of you get the chance and have the interest, you might try to find a copy of Oct. 2002 Shooting Times. Rick Jameson did a great article on bullet penetration. He compares several 30 cal, 180 grain bullets at high velocity and low velocity. He provides data on penetration, expansion, wound description and other info. It is very revealing, especially when it comes to the Hornady SST bullet.

 

[WDSWIFT]

Danr, was that the article where the conclusion was that the SST was MORE explosive/fragile than the "Hunting" NBT's?? WD.

 

[danr55]

That's the one Wayne. I just read it again this morning. It's pretty direct about which bullet will do what....

 

[WDSWIFT]

Yep Danr, I saw that one. It somewhat contradicted another lab's result that I looked at late last winter. From field results I've seen so far, I'd place their penetration abilities somewhere between the "Hunting" NBT's and the Partitions.

They are accurate rascals in 6mm, 6.5, 7mm, and 30 cal that I've tried them in. Gotta give 'em that.

With any luck... I'll be a lot more experienced with them by next Friday the 29th. So I'm going to reserve judgement till then.

WD

 

[Nodak Hunter]

Hi all! Been out hunting for a while now, but I'm back. I'll have to weigh in on this, because something happened this year that changed the way I look at hunting bullets.

I used three different rifle/bullet combos this year, a .25-06, a .300 WM, and a .358 Norma mag. The .25-06 was using 115 gr BTs driven at 3,000 fps muzzle velocity. The .300 Winnie was using 200 gr Partitions at 2,900 fps, and the .358 was using 250 gr X bullets at 2,800 fps.

I used the .358 Norma to take a 250 lb black bear at 40 ft. The bullet entered the bear diretly between the shoulders from above, angled down throught the spine, into the lungs, and out through his belly, breaking his back in the process. He dropped on the spot, and the next morning I dug the bullet out of the ground from beneath where he had fallen. The bullet had one petal broken off, was about 3" deep in the ground, and had retained 236 grains of weight. Perfect.

The .300 was used to take a whitetail and a cow elk. The Partition passed through the whitetail at 220 yards, breaking the off shoulder, and dropping him in his tracks. Little bloodshot meat except immediately around the shoulder blade and a small amount at the entrance. On the 80 yard elk shot, the bullet was recovered under the off side hide, after passing through the rear of the rib cage (breaking three ribs), angling up through the lungs, and breaking the off shoulder. Retained weight was 148 grains. The elk dropped in her tracks, and expired within 30 seconds.

The .25-06 was used to take a pronghorn at 120 yards. The bullet hit the pronghorn a bit high, and disintegrated upon impact with the animal's backbone just behind and above the shoulders. The pronghorn dropped in his tracks, but then got up, so I put another one into him, just behind the shoulder. This bullet entered the rib cage, and exited through the far side ribs, breaking one rib and leaving a huge, messy exit hole. There was practically no salvageable meat on the front half of the pronghorn. I was going to use the .25-06 for deer, but after this, opted for the .300 WM.

My brother and I have discussed this and other bullet performance "events", and we've both pretty much decided that we're going to exclusively use Partitions in rifles .30 caliber and under, and either X bullets or Partitions in larger calibers. The added cost is negligible when you consider how many bullets you'll actually use shooting at game over your lifetime, and we both feel it is worth the added confidence attained when you know your bullet will work correctly.

OBTW, I agree that 250 grain bullets are the way to go in the .338 (and .358 for that matter as well). My .300 WM handles 200s just fine, so there's no reason for me to use lighter bullets in larger calibers.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-22-2002 15:16: Message edited by: Nodak Hunter ]</font>

 

[IndyJay]

Thanks for sharing your experience! I've recently had a Ruger MkII rebarrelled to .358 Norma. Would you be kind enough to share some load data with me? I like the idea of the big 250gr. X or a 225 or 250 Partition.

Thanks,

 

[Nodak Hunter]

Jay,

You've got mail.

 

[snuffy1]

This was an interesting thread to read. I have for some time been saying that NBTs were ballistic bombs in whitetail deer regardless of what caliber they were.

I got caught up in the BT craze shortly after they came out. I started using them myself and loading them for my family for use on whitetail WI deer.

Over the last 20 yrs I, or someone in my family have taken over 30 deer with BTs. The ammount of bloodshot meat would make a sizeable pile. HOWEVER, we have not lost one deer, most have dropped where they stood. Lead shrapnell, copper jacket bits and blood shot meat between my teeth are bad things. In every case the jacket has seperated from the core. About half have failed to fully penetrate when bone was encountered. Calibers include 1 7-08 using 140 bt, 2 .280s also 140 bt 1 .308 win, 150 bt 2 30-06s, 165 bt's 1 7.62x39, 125 bt and a 7x30 waters , 120bt.

I have switched to the Hornady SST for all but 1 of my nephews rifles. So far we have shot 6 deer with various SST's 1 adult doe with my son's 7-08,139 gr. at 150 yds dead run, she piled up emediately. Massive damage to the heart,(finely ground), lung and liver on an quartering shot in the front shoulder, exiting behind last rib. 2 a .308 using a 165 SST at about 40 yds, buck fawn, little or no bloodshot meat, massive internal damage after going through onside shoulder, exit took out 2 ribs. 3. My 300 WSM using the 165 SST at 200 yds, another buck fawn,(damn), hit in front shoulder tip angled down, took out 3 ribs going in, top of right lung, top of liver and took out 2 ribs upon exit. 4. same 308 as in #1 adult doe at 100 yds, between ribs on entry, straight through back half of both lungs, deer ran over 100 yds, no blood trail. Internal damage was slight, about 1" hole in both lungs. 5. .308 youth gun,(20" BBL),25 yds, mature 8 point buck 150 gr SST, Hit in front shoulder passed through heart, right lung exited mid belly after nicking stomach. Deer dropped in his tracks. Internal damage was much less than with a BT. 6. Same 7-08 as in # 1, adult doe at around 75 yds on the run, hit was low under chest, split the hide all along bullet path but entered the chest cavity enough to rupture lung(s), deer dropped in tracks.

So far I would say that the SST is a tougher bullet. It don't open as fast, or cause as much bloodshot damage. Consider that it has both a cannelure and the interlock as well as a 5% antimony lead core.

This is my great nephew Joe with his 8 pointer.

This is the buck fawn and the .308 heavy bbl savage, my buddy Steve.

PS Dan, Wooly is lookin for ya over at the NAHC BBS

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-26-2002 13:27: Message edited by: snuffy1 ]</font>

 

[danr55]

Thanks Snuffy. Let him know I'll be over there as soon as I get back from Wyoming.. Probably Sunday or Monday....

 

[WDSWIFT]

Just got back from WVa deer hunt. My buddy used 95gr SST's in his 243. I used the 129's in my 6.5-06.

My buddy got a 120-130# doe at approx. 60yds with the 243... passed through both shoulders, dropped on the spot. Considerable bloodshot meat.

My first deer was a 110-120# doe at approx 120-140yds. Knocked her off her feet, she got up and ran toward me and fell over after about 60yds. Broadside shot, through the chest, did not pass through.

My second deer was a big 10pt buck (approx.180#), about 70-80yds away, broadside again, passed through the chest and the opposite shoulder, this one made it about 50yds down the mountain before it piled up. This one had quite a bit of bloodshot on the offside shoulder.

Well, the SST's are accurate, that helps ya put 'em where they belong.IMHO. Thank my lucky stars for broadside shots, patience enough to wait for 'em, and both ran toward the 4 wheeler.WD