Sunday Missoulian article Initiative 161

[Sytes]

http://www.missoulian.com/news/local/article_6c4c2022-13ac-11df-a860-001cc4c002e0.html

Sunday paper article. Interesting review.

 

[Nemont]

Furthermore, Rich and Gilchrist said the initiative won’t touch another source of big-money hunting influence. A 2009 study by Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks and Colorado State University found just 3 percent of Montana landowners with elk-hunting habitat worked exclusively with outfitters. Another 3.3 percent of those landowners either charged access fees to all comers or had lease agreements with hunting marketers or private groups of hunters – no outfitter involved.

Meanwhile, 80.1 percent of those landowners opened their land for free to family, friends or hunters who ask permission. Another 13.2 percent opened their property through the state’s block management program.

The guaranteed license income funds that block management program. Participating landowners get paid a small amount per hunter for the access, and FWP provides monitors to ensure fences are respected and rules are obeyed.

Did the FWP really fund a study to find out what percent of landowner lease to outfitters vs. private leases to hunters vs. Block Mangement?

What good is knowing the percentage of landowners without having a little more info?

The article points out the obvious question:

Hunters and wildlife biologists both know that of Montana’s millions of wild acres, a tiny percentage actually hold big game. And most of that prime land, with the good water and fertile soil, rests in private ownership

This appears to me to be nothing more then propaganda for the Outfitters to make a baseless claim.

I wonder how much land those 3% of landowners represent compared to the remain 97% of landowners.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Nemont

 

[noharleyyet]

Good read Sytes...so is the related stories link.

 

[BuzzH]

Nemont nailed the million dollar question.

Who cares what the percentages are...what matters is how many acres are leased, what kind of quality the acres are thats leased, and how much public land is locked up via those leases.

All that is left out of the article.

I know one thing for certain, that article is just propoganda by the outfitters and MOGA, nothing more.

The MOGA and outfitters are going to get exactly what they deserve in November. They've run rough-shod over the public for 20+ years and its all coming to an end.

 

[Sytes]

Maybe someone would be careful in wording a response from an objective viewpoint to bring out such questions...

I say this as it is evident - many in Missoula are swayed by the "fickle mob who absorb such info"... I find info is better absorbed when placed objectively w/o the heated passion that sparks division...

Too many sit on the fence on such due to LACK OF KNOWLEDGE of such details and will follow the direction as seems most popular... or something that prings them to find "agreement".

The amount learned here is amazing in seeing other viewpoints as Nemont place... though easy missed or not even evaluated - UNLESS it is announced in a way that does not put people off.

Nemont, maybe place a response to the editor your considerations to be posted? I think it would open people to consider such as you further open such.

 

[Sytes]

Good read Sytes...so is the related stories link.

You had me searching for the related stories - many of interest that I did not view as I had reviewed this in the actual paper - though this link to the article enables me to bring it to those here who have interest...

Upon searching for these related stories... I found it very interesting, the SPONSORED LINKS...

Guaranteed Elk Hunt
Guaranteed elk and bison hunting on an 11,000 acre private hunting ranch
www.junipermountain.net
Hunt Wyoming for Monster Deer & Elk
Hunt Trophy B&C Elk and Deer on Private Ranch… Free Chase.
www.monstertrophies.com
American Eagle Outfitters Employment
We're Still Hiring. Local Job Openings
www.localjobsecurity.com

Letter to the editors to dispell a bit by opening thoughts would be great - I am not really the ideal choice for such... Anyone? I know letters to the editor are often posted and valued for the read.

 

[noharleyyet]

this one:

http://www.missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/article_f13f1e90-d4c5-11de-b534-001cc4c03286.html

 

[RockyDog]

Buzzh, are you serious? you really think this initiative will pass? I assumed it was a long shot loser.

I got this by email from the Atchesons business........http://www.stop161.org/

 

[Nemont]

Check out this post by Jean Johnson on the Billings Gazette site regarding the exact same article , This is the lead lobbyist for MOGA.

It is interesting that no where in the article that was presented to the public did MOGA state any of these stats. Rather they ran with the 3% of landowners lease to outfitters.

Is a survey with a 50% response rate an accurate and valid survey? I don't know whether it is or it is not but it is obvious that MOGA intends to beat up residents up with that number at every turn. I guess one landowner is the same as any other landowner regardless of how many many acres and how much habitat and how many critters they harbor.

I wonder how many landowners there are in the entire state? Has to be more then 3,000, I wonder how one can extrapolate such exact figures from this sample and use those figures to influence public policy with a straight face?

Jean Johnson said on: February 8, 2010, 12:26 pm
If anyone cares for a few facts on the access issue, read this. If all you want to do is rant and rave about outfitters, just move to the next comment.

The PL/PW wanted to try and get a handle on land leasing in Montana. There has been a map of outfitter leases (not all of which are exclusive, despite claims to the contrary)for several years. However, there has not been (to my knowledge) an attempt to learn about other management tools, such as hunting clubs. Last year, a study was done out of Colorado State University to see what could be learned. A survey was sent to 3,000 Montana landowners; 1500 responded. Here's some of what they found:
Hunting Access Management Systems Used by Landowners for Bull Elk: 67.2% manage by family and friends; 13.5% manage by nonfamily and friends; 12.7% manage through the Block Management program; 3.85% manage by leasing to hunting clubs, individuals; and 2.85% manage through outfitters.

Hunting Access Management Systems Used by Landowners for Buck Deer: 62.9% manage by family and friends; 20.3% manage through nonfamily and friends; 10.9% manage through Block Management; 3.2% manage through outfitters; and 2.6% manage through hunting clubs, fees.

Don't you all think it would be a good idea to put all this passion and energy into becoming a "friend" to the 83% and the 80%? The FWP has a new interactive web site that describes ways to become one of those friends. Anyone care about that? Does everyone agree that the landowner makes his own management decisions?

 

[BuzzH]

RockyDog, dont know if it will pass or not, but either way its a wake-up call to the welfare outfitters of Montana.

What is catching on is that Resident hunters are tired of being run over and treated like crap by outfitters and the MOGA and that they dont like the OSL's and think they need to go.

I'd say if the outfitters keep up their lies and distortions of facts, etc. it will have a better chance of passing. I have no doubts it will make the ballot. I know a lot of people in MT who are gathering signatures.

 

[montanadogs]

Just an question, please don't kill me over this one, I'm still young and naive. If the tag system was kept the way it was and outfitters could only operate on pubic land do you guys think that it would not only weed out a bunch of outfitters, (due to them not know were the game is outside of their leased land,) but still cause such a big stir? Or would it piss a lot of land owners off who make a good chunk of money off of outfitters and we would be back to square one? I don't know the whole story yet, never really bugged me until I got to Great Falls and was told no I couldn't hunt on privet land due to leases with outfitters. I'm about 1 yes to ever 6 no's so far. and a whopping 18 no's due to leases!!!! I've ask 53 different land owners.( I still have all the name and addresses of everyone.) I usually hunted the north end of the bob so I never had this problem.

 

[BuzzH]

Its a long story...

 

[Sytes]

Guaranteed Elk Hunt
Guaranteed elk and bison hunting on an 11,000 acre private hunting ranch

Think this says a lot about sponsored links on ability to advertise such great value with respect to private property and outfitter access to public game.