Caribou Gear Tarp

Stealhead are Salmon

Hey Cheese,

You're right, I dont know anything about anadromous fish, never caught one, never done any research on them. I havent read mountains of info on the management of anadromous fish, never read anything about their historic numbers, never heard of the PATH report. I didnt start fishing them in the Clearwater in 1978 either. I dont know anyone else who has ever fished them, in particular a guy named Duke Parkening who fished the middle fork clearwater for steelhead and salmon with Ted Trueblood. Duke didnt invite me into his home on the middle fork either, where I learned more about steelhead and salmon in an afternoon than I could have in 2 weeks in a library. I didnt see his extensive collection of fenwick fly rods or the flies that he had framed that he took out of Zane Greys flybook while fishing with him on the Clearwater.

I just make it sound good.
 
And not only that that dam Buzz is coming down to Arizona and catching all of our fish!!! :D :D Whats up with that..Darn out of staters! :D :)
 
cjcj, I left a few for seed and the residents...I figure if the residents arent going to fish them, someone may as well.

Even though I dont know anything about white bass or fishing in general, I just make it sound good.
 
You're right, I dont know anything about anadromous fish, never caught one, never done any research on them. I havent read mountains of info on the management of anadromous fish, never read anything about their historic numbers, never heard of the PATH report. I didnt start fishing them in the Clearwater in 1978 either. I dont know anyone else who has ever fished them, in particular a guy named Duke Parkening who fished the middle fork clearwater for steelhead and salmon with Ted Trueblood. Duke didnt invite me into his home on the middle fork either, where I learned more about steelhead and salmon in an afternoon than I could have in 2 weeks in a library. I didnt see his extensive collection of fenwick fly rods or the flies that he had framed that he took out of Zane Greys flybook while fishing with him on the Clearwater.
Click to expand...
LMAO....
You already broke one of your rules... ;)

3. I do some research, then post questions or an opinion.

Research back to what I have stated, when ever did I say you didn't know what you were talking about on this subject.... :)

Come on now, we are going back you you only seeing and reading only what you want, adding your own 2 cents into the fray even if it had nothing to do with the topic.

Stay focused now...
 
What I want to see is ten beers arguing with a warden that the steelhead he just bonked on the head with a rock and tagged on a SALMON card is legal?

Tell them that steelhead are salmon and see how far your arguement goes that you think you "won".

Steelhead are in the same genus but they sure as hell are not even close to the same fish. One dies after spawning, one doesnt. They dont have the same life cylces, they dont have the same coloration, they cant hybridize, one swim further inland, run timings arent the same, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Yep, they're both fish, but thats about where the similarity ends.

If you dont know the difference or how to spell the name correctly, its not suprising you'd argue they're the same fish, they arent.

Thats why you have a SALMON card and STEELHEAD card, thats why they're managed differently, thats why we classify them differently with species name, Christ, its not rocket science. Take a basic course in biology for god sake.
Click to expand...
Other then your opinion, BUZZ, please refute that steelhead are salmon, and bring your supporting material with links for all to see. It is a given the ELKy was mistaken when he posted him comment on the other thread, but when you made the statement that steelhead are not salmon, again you were wrong. Steelhead are in fact salmon (please refer to the very definition of salmon in the opening statement, complete with link).

The reason there are different steelhead and salmon cards is the same reason that there are different tags for muledeer, whitetail deer, elk, and moose, all are deer, but they can be readily distinquished from each other. That doesn't mean that steelhead aren't salmon, they are, and it doesn't mean that the members of the deer family aren't deer, because they are.

If you can't bring proof that steelhead aren't salmon, please accept you were wrong (I don't expect you to say and mean it). But if you have proof otherwise (other then you've fished for them for .... years, that didn't make much scientific sense in your arguement) please show it.
 
TB- Steelhead and Silver Salmon are as similiar as a baboon and you. As per taxonomy level (you and baboon and steelhead and silver salmon) are the same at the same level (family). Their family level is salmonoid, you and a baboon's family level is primatae. They differ at the same level also. So if you consider yourself a baboon, your argument would be correct.
 
TB- If you need a link please refer to 6th grade Biology when you get there.
 
Leave it to the educated around here to really get it wrong.
Human Physical Traits Humans are classified in the mammalian order Primates; within this order, humans, along with our extinct close ancestors, and our nearest living relatives, the African apes, are sometimes placed together in the family Hominidae because of genetic similarities, although classification systems more commonly still place great apes in a separate family, Pongidae. If the single grouping, Hominidae, is used, the separate human line in the hominid family is distinguished by being placed in a subfamily, Homininae, whose members are then called hominines-the practice that is followed in this article. An examination of the fossil record of the hominines reveals several biological and behavioral trends characteristic of the hominine subfamily.
http://www.essaysample.com/essay/002732.html
Click to expand...
Now back to fish....
salm·on (săm'ən)
n., pl. salmon or -ons.
Any of various large food and game fishes of the genera Salmo and Oncorhynchus, of northern waters, having delicate pinkish flesh and characteristically swimming from salt to fresh water to spawn.
A moderate, light, or strong yellowish pink to a moderate reddish orange or light orange.
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery...8&curtab=1555_1

steel·head (stēl'hĕd')
n.
The anadromous variety of the rainbow trout , having silvery, unstriped sides.
http://www.answers.com/topic/steelhead

Oncorhynchus mykiss (Walbaum, 1792)
Family: Salmonidae (Salmonids) , subfamily: Salmoninae picture (Onmyk_u1.jpg) by Keeley, E.R.

Map
Order: Salmoniformes (salmons)
Class: Actinopterygii (ray-finned fishes)
FishBase name: Rainbow trout
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...orhynchus&hl=en
Click to expand...
Good of you to show links for your arguement MATTy. I'm sure that school in Miserablezoula spent your tuition and fees well.

What's a "salmonoid"? I see that Steelhead fall under the sub-family of "Salmoninae".
 
TB- Hominadae- Homo-Sapiens is to Hominadae-Pan-Paniscus as Salmonidae-Oncorhynchus-kisutch is to Salmonidae-Salmo gairdneri

That is to say the similiarity between Silver Salmon and Steelhead is the same as you and a chimpanzee....
 
Steelhead
Oncorhynchus mykiss
Steelhead are the anadromous (migrating) version of rainbow trout. Rainbow trout are the "land locked" version, and remain in freshwater throughout their life. Steelhead migrate from the ocean into freshwater to spawn, and then can swim back out to the ocean again if they wish. Since steelhead are not semelparous (meaning they do not die after spawning) they are not an "official" Pacific Salmon. But, steelhead are often a favorite of local fishers for their large size and feisty attitude. Lake Washington currently has a steelhead recovery program underway to help increase the number of fish in the system.
Click to expand...
steelM.jpg

Adult Male
SteelF.jpg

Adult Female

STEELHEAD'S LIFE CYCLE: Young steelhead spend 1 to 4 years in freshwater feeding on small creatures, insects and small fishes before migrating downstream through estuaries to the open ocean. Unlike salmon, steelhead travel the oceans alone rather than in schools. Steelhead spend 1 to 5 years at sea before returning to their birth streams or rivers to spawn. Unlike salmon, steelhead do not always die after spawning and will return to the ocean to wait until it's time to spawn in another year.
Click to expand...
medsteelheadmale.gif


Steelhead trout are sea-going rainbow trout. They are very agile and, unlike salmon, can jump water falls up to 15 feet high which allows them to extend their range well upstream of areas inhabited by chinook and coho salmon. Steelhead often live in swift streams flowing out of the mountains. Very small fish live in shallow riffles and calm places at the stream's edge. As young of the year steelhead grow, they inhabit riffle areas, where food is delivered by the flowing water. Yearling or two year old steelhead more often select pool habitats. Young steelhead stay in freshwater from one to three years before migrating to sea (Barnhart, 1986).

In the ocean, some Klamath River steelhead stay along the continental shelf off northern California and southern Oregon. Other Klamath steelhead may range in the Pacific Ocean as far north as British Columbia. After one to three years in the ocean, the fish return to their native streams to spawn. Moving upstream when the water is high, steelhead can get into very small streams, where salmon can not go. This helps reduce competition between the species. Steelhead have another competitive advantage in that, unlike chinook and coho salmon, they do not necessarily die after spawning and can live to spawn several times.
Click to expand...
steelhd.jpg
 
While all so far have found differences between "steelhead" and "salmon", can anyone yet show that steelhead are not true salmon? If they are not salmon, why are they in the same Genus as chinook, coho, sockeye, chum, silver, and pink? What of landlocked chinook or blueback (sockeye)?
 
Are steelhead (rainbow trout) trout or salmon?
Until 1988, steelhead (the anadromous form of rainbow trout) was classified in the genus Salmo along with Atlantic salmon, brown trout, and several western trout species. With additional osteology and biochemistry data, biologists have now reclassified steelhead as members of the genus Oncorhynchus.

The reason for this is that new information suggested that steelhead are related to Pacific salmon and not brown trout and Atlantic salmon. As such, the American Fisheries Society - American Society of Ichthyologists Committee on Names of Fishes voted unanimously to accept Oncorhynchus as the proper generic name.

The classification and scientific names of rainbow and cutthroat trouts. Fisheries 14 (1): 4-10. As such, the scientific name of steelhead was changed from Salmo gairdneri to Oncorhynchus mykiss. The generic names of the golden, Mexican golden, Gila, and Apache trouts were also changed to Oncorhynchus.

Since all of these western trouts including steelhead are biologically capable of repeat spawning and do not die after spawning, it has been suggested this group be called the Pacific trout.
Click to expand...
 
Since all of these western trouts including steelhead are biologically capable of repeat spawning and do not die after spawning, it has been suggested this group be called the Pacific trout.
Click to expand...
As much as many would like to debate otherwise, as long as steelhead share a common genus name with salmon, steelhead are salmon (by definition). You don't have to like it, but unless you have the ability to change it, that is the way it is.
 
TB- Try again, it is not the same genus! It is the same Family. The genus and species is different. Silver Salmon (Coho) is:Salmonidae-Oncorhynchus-kisutch is to Steelhead: Salmonidae-Salmo gairdneri AS Human: Hominadae- Homo-Sapiens is to Chimpanzee: Hominadae-Pan-Paniscus

Taxonomy: (Family-Genus-Species)

They are not that similiar. Mule deer and Whitetail are the same all the way to genus. Coho (Silver salmon) and steelhead are similiar at FAMILY! Same as Human and Chimpanzee!!!!

As a footnote: I am seeing too distinct genus and species for steelhead or rainbow trout.

http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/kopec/tr9/html/species-common-name-list.html
 
This is off the ODFW website. They have for whatever reason classed Steelhead with the other salmon. All I know is they are not downers they go either on the grill or in the smoker.



Do's and Don'ts for Ocean Salmon i.d.:

DO use the gumline on the LOWER jaw for identifying a salmon. It is the single best feature to use. It is also the characteristic that is most likely to be used by enforcement officers in deciding whether a violation has occurred and if a citation should be issued.
DO review the identification materials provided on this web page, and keep a copy of this or another ocean salmon identification guide with you while fishing.
DO carefully release any salmon if you are unable to make a positive identification and the fish may be a prohibited species.
DON'T rely on body color or spots to identify a salmon caught in the ocean. Salmon in the ocean phase of their life cycle will not show the colors that are common after they enter the estuaries and rivers. All ocean salmon are primarily silver in color, and there can be wide variations in spots and color both within and between species.
DON'T use the presence or absence of a hooked nose as an identifying characteristic. A hooked nose is a common secondary sexual characteristic of male salmon as they approach maturity, and is present in all species.
DON'T use the size of a salmon to determine the species. Although the chinook grows to be the largest of our salmon, with fish over 50 pounds being caught on occasion, the average size of an ocean caught chinook is 12-15 pounds. On the other hand coho, chum, and steelhead have been observed in the 25-30 pound range.



Photograph of the ocean phase of six different species of Pacific salmon. From top to bottom: chinook, chum, coho, sockeye, pink, and steelhead.



IDENTIFICATION GUIDE: OCEAN SALMON

Coho Salmon "Silver" (Oncorhynchus kisutch)

The coloration on the lower jaw exhibits a distinct banding pattern. Outside the base of the teeth there is a dark band, at the base of the teeth is a white or very light band, and inside of the base of the teeth is another dark band.
Bone segments in the fin rays of the tail can be felt by lightly running a finger nail along the top of the fin ray.
Teeth are sharp and firmly set in the jaw.
Tail may or may not have "round" spots in the upper lobe. Occasionally, coho will have spots in both lobes of the tail.
"Small" spots may or may not be present on the back.


Diagram and photo of lower jaw of coho salmon. Note the distinct banding pattern of dark to light to dark.



Chinook Salmon "King" (Oncorhynchus tshawytscha)

The lower jaw is a uniform dark coloration (in some cases may be mottled).
Bone segments in the fin rays of the tail CANNOT be felt by lightly running a finger nail along the top of a fin ray.
Teeth are sharp and firmly set in the jaw.
Tail may or may not have "round" spots in both the upper and lower lobe.
"Large" wavy spots are usually present on the back.


Diagram and two photos showing coloration of lower jaw of chinook salmon. Note that the coloration at the base of the teeth is consistent with the area inside and outside i.e. no distinct banding coloration although colors can vary substantially.



Pink Salmon "Humpie" (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha)

The lower jaw is a uniform dark coloration (in some cases may be mottled).
Teeth are dull and are loosely set in the jaw.
Tail is translucent, with large oval spots throughout.




Diagram and photo of lower jaw of pink salmon, and photo of pink salmon tail displaying the large oval spots. Note that there is more variation in the color of the pink salmon gumline than in other salmon species. Generally, the gumline is most similar to the chinook's, however pink salmon will have dull and loosely set teeth while the chinook will have sharp firmly set teeth.



Chum Salmon "Dog" (Oncorhynchus keta)

Coloration on the lower jaw exhibits a distinct banding pattern. Outside the base of the teeth it is light, at the base of the teeth it is dark, and inside of the base of the teeth it is light again.
Tail has no spots.
Diameter of the pupil of the eye is large.


Diagram and photo of lower jaw of a chum salmon. Note banding pattern of light to dark to light, the opposite of what is seen in coho.



Steelhead/Rainbow Trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss)

The lower jaw and inside of the mouth is all white.
Tail is squared off, and has small round spots throughout.


Diagram of lower jaw of a steelhead. Note the entire gum and inside of mouth is white.





Eric Schindler, [email protected]
Oregon Department of Fish & Wildlife
2040 SE Marine Science Drive
Newport, Oregon 97365
(541) 867-4741

Salmon Management | Marine Resources Program | Main Agency
December 27, 2004
901 visits since 12/27/2004
 
Now that is a lot of information, I for one will thank every one of you for such a showing :)
Hello Bill...
How have you been?
Long time no see.... :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Use Promo Code Randy for 20% off OutdoorClass

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
111,229
Messages
1,951,701
Members
35,088
Latest member
K9TXS

Share this page

Back
Top