Spring Bears With Hounds Proposed

[Point Creep]

I cannot have a conversation about the benefit of increasing hunting opportunities with two guys who literally look at adding days to a youth deer hunt as "beyond awful."

Don’t underestimate the amount of top end MT deer are sniped annually during the 2 day early youth hunt.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Right, because 6 weeks of archery hunting, followed by 5 weeks of rifle hunting (through the entire deer rut)...just isn't enough time to get youth hunters out in the field. You know, with a whole pocket full of deer b tags, elk b tags, another few months of shoulder seasons...oh, and youth being allowed to hunt antlerless elk and deer on their A-tags.

Yeah, Montana absolutely needs to look out for youth by giving them another weekend...

What I cannot have a conversation about is any parent that's such a sack of shit, that they need 2 more days to take their kids out to pound on deer that already have 11 weeks of pressure put on them.

Sounds to me like dear old Dad doesn't want junior getting in the way of their 11 week seasons.

Wow ..sack of shit parents ...wow

 

[RobG]

I think what Sytes was saying is that the liberal politicians basically walked away from the mainstream Montana with their support of wolves, anti-logging, etc. By doing this they let the bad guys set the agenda.

 

[RobG]

Fair enough. I was talking opportunities in the US, which they are declining. You know more about Montana than me.

I respect that you don't make excuses and just say you don't want others to have something so you can have more of what you have....better than hiding behind the grizzly bull crap.

Montana is purple, and hopefully moves more back to red. If you end up blue and Bozeman starts making your decisions on hunting for you, then you will get a taste of losing opportunities.

Montana is a lot more red (and extreme) now than it used to be. [edit, yeah, what Randy said ]

 

[RobG]

It's also noteworthy that Idaho used to be pretty reasonable with Governor Andrus, etc. Move forward to twenty years ago and I remember a rural democrat quitting the legislature because the democratic party wasn't even relevant. I'm sure it has gotten worse now in general, but at least you don't have Chenowith and Larry Craig at the national level.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

If we're using facts let's use facts. Montana is the reddest it's been in a very long time.

A Red Wave Washes Over Montana, Handing Republicans Big Wins

Montana has long prided itself as a purple state, handing wins to both Democrats and Republicans over the past few decades. But on Tuesday night,…

www.boisestatepublicradio.org

Politicos explain Montana's red wave

In interviews with Montana Free Press, nearly a dozen elected officials, campaign strategists, and political analysts described what they believe are the reasons behind the results, citing the popularity of President Trump and national attacks against the Democratic Party and the COVID-19...

montanafreepress.org

Half your senators are blue.... let's go back to talking about how giving youth hunters opportunities is so terrible.

 

[mtmiller]

Fair enough. I was talking opportunities in the US, which they are declining. You know more about Montana than me.

Yet here we are in the State Specific Issues of Montana.

Blanket party for the uninformed.

 

[520 Road Sow]

So how about the bears and hounds conversation? Or are we past that point? Just a red state Neanderthal asking?

 

[Trap]

I’m going to say this one more time, that statement is simply not true in Montana. I’m 40 years old. Lived in MT my entire life. I can’t think of one hunting opportunity that went away in the 40 years. They have only expanded in this state. It’s time for MT sportsman to say enough is enough. I oppose anymore opportunity expansion in MT. And yes I get it, this isn’t the trend in other states west wide. I hunt outside MT as well but for this state enough is enough

You’re a native Montanan and I haven’t lived there since 1993 so I respect your opinion and will take your word for it. We used to hunt by Malta and Havre in the 80 ‘s and you could shoot 6 deer back then and antelope was usually 100 percent draw odds if you drew for your tag you could usually buy 2 additional doe tags. 5 of the deer tags were otc mule deer does which is like shooting fish in a barrel anyways you could shoot 9 deer and antelope back then. I don’t disagree with what you are saying at all and will openly admit as a current and lifetime resident you have more knowledge than I do about Montana. That’s just one example of reducing tags that has happened in Montana. So it’s not all been nothing but more tags and seasons.

 

[El Jason]

For every one whining about TOO much predator management look at a site called hunting Washington. Look up our mule deer herds thread. The LIBERAL political regime has protected predators to the extreme and they are at the point of a predator pit. I don’t agree with Idaho’s approach to predators especially lions but it’s a Cadillac problem. We still have plenty of lions bears and at this point too many wolves where I hunt. Look at Washington and see if you like the liberal agenda. No hounds for bear or lion. They had both it’s been taken away. No baiting for bears they had it it was taken away. They probably have more wolves than Idaho and Montana but they are throwing people in jail if they shoot one.

Umm, no WA has far fewer wolves than Idaho and Montana. Not sure where you came up with that little factoid.

Hounds and baiting were removed decades ago by ballot initiative.

Hunting Washington is not exactly a bastion of conservation minded folks.

Carry on

 

[Hawk Tuah]

So how about the bears and hounds conversation? Or are we past that point? Just a red state Neanderthal asking?

I would say a conversation about adding a hound hunting opportunity is silly with people who think a two-day youth hunting opportunity for deer is "awful."

I am pretty convinced at this point that these so called hunting "advocates" will not be happy until there is a law in their state that mandates every hunter except them has to hunt big game with Nerf guns instead of high powered rifles.

There gets to a point where you cannot have a conversation because the ideas and intersection of ideas is so far removed. Certain presuppositions I thought existed do not. All these people want is a state full of big animals that they alone can hunt.

I cannot stomach the idea that we have advocates speaking on behalf of hunters to legislatures and game departments who detest youth hunting opportunities and think their parents are "sacks of shit" for even taking their kid hunting during a youth season.

 

[Carnage2011]

What party did that guy from Montana belong to that co-sponsored that wolf bill that got them delisted again?

I always forget...

What party did that guy belong to that co-sponsored that bill to reaffirm the rights of the States to manage game within their borders?

I always forget...

What party did that gal from Montana belong to that decided to declare war on elk (HB43) belong to again?

Can someone remind me?

You’re not wrong Buzz, but let’s play both sides.

What party was it that just ended trapping in NM?

What party was it that brought forward a ban on bear hunting in CA this year?

What party is it that got rid of spring bear hunting and most trapping in CO?

Maybe if people could think independently without hopping in bed with someone because they have an R or D by their name our country wouldn’t look like so divided right now.

 

[BuzzH]

You’re not wrong Buzz, but let’s play both sides.

What party was it that just ended trapping in NM?

What party was it that brought forward a ban on bear hunting in CA this year?

What party is it that got rid of spring bear hunting and most trapping in CO?

Maybe if people could think independently without hopping in bed with someone because they have an R or D by their name our country wouldn’t look like so divided right now.

How about remembering this is the MONTANA section...you know, keep it relevant.

It's a discussion about how the politics in Montana is kicking the shit out of the resource IN MONTANA and what Party is doing it. Maybe think independently instead of excusing the total crap that's gone on with the party in Montana drunk on stupid ideas. Quit making excuses by using, the, "yeah but, NM, yeah but, CO, yeah but, CA."

There is no excuse of the crap that's going on in Montana...none.

If you want to talk about bans in CO, CA, and NM...go to those state sections and we can talk about the equally dumb ideas there.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I would say a conversation about adding a hound hunting opportunity is silly with people who think a two-day youth hunting opportunity for deer is "awful."

I am pretty convinced at this point that these so called hunting "advocates" will not be happy until there is a law in their state that mandates every hunter except them has to hunt big game with Nerf guns instead of high powered rifles.

There gets to a point where you cannot have a conversation because the ideas and intersection of ideas is so far removed. Certain presuppositions I thought existed do not. All these people want is a state full of big animals that they alone can hunt.

I cannot stomach the idea that we have advocates speaking on behalf of hunters to legislatures and game departments who detest youth hunting opportunities and think their parents are "sacks of shit" for even taking their kid hunting during a youth season.

I don’t totally disagree with your premise, I think it’s beneficial to take a hard look at priorities and if “we” — whoever that may be — are being overly selfish. But the fact remains MT big game resources have been, and are over-exploited for the public land hunter. Both can be true.
I think expanding to pursue bears w/hounds feels a little removed from the outside in, but for some guys it’s just one more thing in a long and expanding list of “opportunity”.

 

[brockel]

You’re a native Montanan and I haven’t lived there since 1993 so I respect your opinion and will take your word for it. We used to hunt by Malta and Havre in the 80 ‘s and you could shoot 6 deer back then and antelope was usually 100 percent draw odds if you drew for your tag you could usually buy 2 additional doe tags. 5 of the deer tags were otc mule deer does which is like shooting fish in a barrel anyways you could shoot 9 deer and antelope back then. I don’t disagree with what you are saying at all and will openly admit as a current and lifetime resident you have more knowledge than I do about Montana. That’s just one example of reducing tags that has happened in Montana. So it’s not all been nothing but more tags and seasons.

Region 7. Up to 7 mule deer doe tags, 2 whitetail doe tags, plus your A tag. Sure wish we could see some of that reducing tags

 

[Trap]

Right, because 6 weeks of archery hunting, followed by 5 weeks of rifle hunting (through the entire deer rut)...just isn't enough time to get youth hunters out in the field. You know, with a whole pocket full of deer b tags, elk b tags, another few months of shoulder seasons...oh, and youth being allowed to hunt antlerless elk and deer on their A-tags.

Yeah, Montana absolutely needs to look out for youth by giving them another weekend...

What I cannot have a conversation about is any parent that's such a sack of shit, that they need 2 more days to take their kids out to pound on deer that already have 11 weeks of pressure put on them.

Sounds to me like dear old Dad doesn't want junior getting in the way of their 11 week seasons.

Umm, no WA has far fewer wolves than Idaho and Montana. Not sure where you came up with that little factoid.

Hounds and baiting were removed decades ago by ballot initiative.

Hunting Washington is not exactly a bastion of conservation minded folks.

Carry on

I don’t trust their biologists numbers. They do not document tons of wolves. I have some ranchers as friends in eastern Washington and they can’t get a documented wolf kill unless a bio literally shows up and they are eating the calf. I have seen trail cam pictures of multiple wolves in areas they claim to have zero. There are way more wolves in Washington than what is documented. I don’t know if they have more than Idaho or Montana but they have more than they claim. Regardless there population is way beyond Needing management wether the true number is higher than Idaho or Montana. That site has plenty of Liberals believe me. They were arguing the same bull propaganda that got hounds and baiting eliminated on that site. There were plenty of people praising wolves on that sight. It’s a liberal state. None of that matters really. My point is predator management vs no predator management is a Good thing. Even when we sometimes go too far for a little bit. Look at what’s happening to their ungulate population. It’s an excellent example of a pro predator state an what happens. When we have to complain about too much predator management it’s one thousand percent better problem to have to no management of predators. Go on there see what there resident hunters feel like it’s enlightening as to what happens when we go too far in protection of predators. A limited hound season would be a dream come true for most Washington deer and elk hunters. A small percentage would oppose it because it might hurt their bear hunting.

 

[BuzzH]

I would say a conversation about adding a hound hunting opportunity is silly with people who think a two-day youth hunting opportunity for deer is "awful."

I am pretty convinced at this point that these so called hunting "advocates" will not be happy until there is a law in their state that mandates every hunter except them has to hunt big game with Nerf guns instead of high powered rifles.

There gets to a point where you cannot have a conversation because the ideas and intersection of ideas is so far removed. Certain presuppositions I thought existed do not. All these people want is a state full of big animals that they alone can hunt.

I cannot stomach the idea that we have advocates speaking on behalf of hunters to legislatures and game departments who detest youth hunting opportunities and think their parents are "sacks of shit" for even taking their kid hunting during a youth season.

Right, who would be so bold to want to put the resource first and show some consideration for wildlife? Its more important that YOUR kids take a priority over biologically managing a resource correctly.

Take the emotion out of it and try to explain why and how a 2 day youth season, sandwiched between 6 weeks of archery and 5 weeks of rifle, makes any kind of biologically sense or how it makes sense at all.

In particular when there's constant crying about the quality of mule deer declining, too many deer and elk staying on private year round due to the pressure, and all the other things that Montana hunters cry about.

What I'm getting tired of, is the crybaby hound hunters running to the legislature to get their bear season. I'm tired of "concerned" parents running to the legislature to make sure precious little Johnnie can have his own special season. I'm tired of muzzleloader hunters running to the legislature to make sure they get another 9 days of pounding on deer and elk. I'm tired of landowners running to the legislature and getting shoulder seasons. I'm tired of landowners running the legislature to get 10 LQ elk tags for owning 640 acres. I',m tired of the outfitters running to the legislature to get a separate allocation of tags.

Do I goddamn need to go on, or do you get the point yet...because I could go on all day of the stupid shit that I see session after session.

I got news for you, parents wanting to take their kids out for another 2 days in Montana, is not one bit different than an outfitter wanting a set aside of tags...not a bit.

There is absolutely not one shit given by either about how their running to the legislature is going to impact the resource...they flat don't care.

I'll keep advocating for the RESOURCE first, for HABITAT first, for keeping public lands open and will not be apologizing for it...and if you don't have the stomach for it, then quit.

Priorities are jacked up in hunting for about 90% of those that participate. They think wildlife is an infinite resource and we don't impact it.

 

[Trap]

Region 7. Up to 7 mule deer doe tags, 2 whitetail doe tags, plus your A tag. Sure wish we could see some of that reducing tags

Crap didn’t know that I stand corrected like I said haven’t been a resident since 93 I will shut up ha ha

 

[Carnage2011]

How about remembering this is the MONTANA section...you know, keep it relevant.

It's a discussion about how the politics in Montana is kicking the shit out of the resource IN MONTANA and what Party is doing it. Maybe think independently instead of excusing the total crap that's gone on with the party in Montana drunk on stupid ideas. Quit making excuses by using, the, "yeah but, NM, yeah but, CO, yeah but, CA."

There is no excuse of the crap that's going on in Montana...none.

If you want to talk about bans in CO, CA, and NM...go to those state sections and we can talk about the equally dumb ideas there.

Thanks for the laugh Buzz.

I sent in plenty of opposition in Montana this year and made a lot of calls to let them know I didn’t approved of their bull shit.

People have brought up several other states in this thread so that’s why I brought up all the things you left out.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Right, who would be so bold to want to put the resource first and show some consideration for wildlife? Its more important that YOUR kids take a priority over biologically managing a resource correctly.

Take the emotion out of it and try to explain why and how a 2 day youth season, sandwiched between 6 weeks of archery and 5 weeks of rifle, makes any kind of biologically sense or how it makes sense at all.

In particular when there's constant crying about the quality of mule deer declining, too many deer and elk staying on private year round due to the pressure, and all the other things that Montana hunters cry about.

What I'm getting tired of, is the crybaby hound hunters running to the legislature to get their bear season. I'm tired of "concerned" parents running to the legislature to make sure precious little Johnnie can have his own special season. I'm tired of muzzleloader hunters running to the legislature to make sure they get another 9 days of pounding on deer and elk. I'm tired of landowners running to the legislature and getting shoulder seasons. I'm tired of landowners running the legislature to get 10 LQ elk tags for owning 640 acres. I',m tired of the outfitters running to the legislature to get a separate allocation of tags.

Do I goddamn need to go on, or do you get the point yet...because I could go on all day of the stupid shit that I see session after session.

I got news for you, parents wanting to take their kids out for another 2 days in Montana, is not one bit different than an outfitter wanting a set aside of tags...not a bit.

There is absolutely not one shit given by either about how their running to the legislature is going to impact the resource...they flat don't care.

I'll keep advocating for the RESOURCE first, for HABITAT first, for keeping public lands open and will not be apologizing for it...and if you don't have the stomach for it, then quit.

Priorities are jacked up in hunting for about 90% of those that participate. They think wildlife is an infinite resource and we don't impact it.

Getting kids interested and involved in hunting, through means of giving them reasonable opportunities that give them an edge, even at the expense of YOUR opportunity is a good thing for HUNTING. Maybe not for YOU, but for the sport.

Two days Buzz. You think two days is enough for a come-apart. Enough to advocate against.

Reading your posts it is clear that you advocate for you. Give the sport of hunting and youth hunters a break and save the gas next time. Stay home. Go to the bowling alley instead of the capital.

If you are actively advocating AGAINST youth opportunity you are a cancer to our sport.