Spring Bears With Hounds Proposed

Im curious, with your argument for this being predator control, getting the bear population in check, how do you justify letting sows walk and only targeting big (cub killing) boars? If this was truly about bear population control youd be killing those sows that you tree. Theyre the cub factories.
 
I don’t know about that. We let known (best guess) sows walk all the time. I’m talking solo sows. Obviously we let sow with Cubs walk.

I still think this is a lot about nothing. I never had a conflict with hound hunters.

The baiters can be a little difficult sometimes. They get defensive of the land around bait sites.
Gee, I wonder why they would get defensive? They put all the time into hauling in bait and setting up a stand to habituate a bear only to have some guy with hounds and ATV run through and chase it into the next zipcode.

Personally, I don't think either method qualifies as hunting but I would vote for baiting over hounding every time. Some bear wanders in to have a couple of donuts with his morning coffee and suddenly finds himself at the pearly gates vs the poor bugger that's run for hours by a pack of angry dogs till he finally gets into a tree. Then waits there with dogs howling till someone finally shows up to put him out of his misery (and that's the best case scenario). All so some guy and his back yard full of noisy Dog Chow gobblers can get their jollies. Baiting is a thousand times more humane/ethical and, I'm sure, at least as if not more effective at managing the resource.

This isn't about simply killing animals to keep their numbers in balance. It has to be about showing them some consideration and respect while we do it ... or we will be facing an unwinnable battle against the antis for public opinion. The validity of hunting as a management tool goes out the window if it necessarily involves unnecessary stress and suffering for the animals. And please don't give me the "give them an inch, they'll take a mile" crap. If we're not proactive in regulating hunting to be something that's more than our having fun killing/harassing wildlife, we'll always be on the losing end of the fight.
 
"Treed and freed" management. Seems like what is requested is a season to chase bears around. mtmuley
Right. I would love to be able to watch my dogs work birds year round. But unless it's hunting season, doing so is considered wildlife harrassment. And for good reason. Birds who are trying hard to raise the next generation of hunting resource have better things to do with their time than waste it dodging my dogs. Ethics ... and common sense.
 
Let's ban it year round. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Wake up. Hounds can chase cats during the designated season. In fact, as pointed out above, houndsman are allotted 90% of the quota. So should bird dog handlers be given 90% of the grouse harvest? Of course not. Wait! Better not be giving the guide association any new ideas!
 
Wake up. Hounds can chase cats during the designated season. In fact, as pointed out above, houndsman are allotted 90% of the quota. So should bird dog handlers be given 90% of the grouse harvest? Of course not. Wait! Better not be giving the guide association any new ideas!
We arent talking about quotas or Lions here.
 
Gee, I wonder why they would get defensive? They put all the time into hauling in bait and setting up a stand to habituate a bear only to have some guy with hounds and ATV run through and chase it into the next zipcode.

Personally, I don't think either method qualifies as hunting but I would vote for baiting over hounding every time. Some bear wanders in to have a couple of donuts with his morning coffee and suddenly finds himself at the pearly gates vs the poor bugger that's run for hours by a pack of angry dogs till he finally gets into a tree. Then waits there with dogs howling till someone finally shows up to put him out of his misery (and that's the best case scenario). All so some guy and his back yard full of noisy Dog Chow gobblers can get their jollies. Baiting is a thousand times more humane/ethical and, I'm sure, at least as if not more effective at managing the resource.

This isn't about simply killing animals to keep their numbers in balance. It has to be about showing them some consideration and respect while we do it ... or we will be facing an unwinnable battle against the antis for public opinion. The validity of hunting as a management tool goes out the window if it necessarily involves unnecessary stress and suffering for the animals. And please don't give me the "give them an inch, they'll take a mile" crap. If we're not proactive in regulating hunting to be something that's more than our having fun killing/harassing wildlife, we'll always be on the losing end of the fight.
I would recommend going on a hound hunt or two for bears before judging it. A hound hunt for bears can be the most exciting and strenuous hardest best hunt you have ever experienced. It like any hunt can go easy or be the hardest hunt of your life. I have hounds and have only hunted lions for the last few years but also ran bears for years. I have hunted bears for 30 years in Idaho usually taking a bear each year by spot and stalk, over bait and only 1 or 2 with hounds. Most hounds men love having bears out there and once the bear is treed the hunts over. there is no need to shoot every bear. I like to let bears and lions free to run another day. Hound hunting is the only catch and release hunting method there is . If you experienced the distance and terrain Idaho bears run you would feel bad for the dogs and hound hunter lol. On baiting I never have to worry about a houndsmen running off my baits because I don’t place them right next to roads or trails. I would highly recommend running a bait in north Idaho by yourself and see how easy it is to pack thousands of pounds of bait in feeding bears when half of them are nocturnal. Baiting provides many benefits from having time to accurately judge the bear to taking enough time to adequately check for Cubs. Baiting actually can lead to increased population of bears in an area. The time and effort involved in baiting bears is monumental. I agree with your thoughts on spring spot and stalk hunting. I harvested by far my largest bear spot and stalk and have taken many bears this way. Part of the experience is getting deep in the woods without a lot of company. Unless you are road hunting(I don’t)or glassing from roads
You most likely will never run into hounds. If you’re in a place with tons of roads and close to roads you probably will occasionally. Of all the methods of hunting bears I have done spot and stalk has been the easiest in terms of time and effort taken to harvest a bear. I have no dog in this fight. I moved to Idaho from Montana but I have no plans to ever hound hunt bears in Montana. This is a HUGE opportunity for Montana to take ground against the antis. Hunters seem like we always lose because we are fragmented. Bow hunters don’t like rifle hunters and some rifle hunters hate long range shooters. Spot and stalk hunters dislike baiters and baiters hate hound hunters because they put there bait in stupid places. Please experience a method of hunting before you look down on it. If you want to really know what it takes do it yourself. If I went and sat on a bait some outfitters put out and stocked for a month it would seem easy. I have and usually hunt bears with all the legal methods. They are all fun,challenging and effective in their own way. We need to stand together as hunters or we’re screwed. At this point I just want to conserve our heritage for my kids and even someday when I have grandkids. The antis WANT us divided that’s how they win.
 
Last spring there was a Predator summit held in Bozeman to discuss what tools could be used in our state to help offset our Ungulate populations from being damaged anymore than they already are.
There seems to be contradicting arguments here. Will hound hunters kill a lot of bears to help the ungulate population or will they let 99 out of 100 bears walk?

Did anyone suggest not hunting ungulates 6 months out of the year? I'm assuming no, since that subset of hunters prioritizes always taking more from a finite resource.
 
There seems to be contradicting arguments here. Will hound hunters kill a lot of bears to help the ungulate population or will they let 99 out of 100 bears walk?

Did anyone suggest not hunting ungulates 6 months out of the year? I'm assuming no, since that subset of hunters prioritizes always taking more from a finite resource.

If hunters kill all the deer & elk, then the bears & woofs & lions won't have anything to eat.

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I be curious to see how the layout of this entire deal is. Is it going to be statewide? Run during the regular season? Quota regulated per district? Different tags? Etc. Etc.

I have been on the fence on this as stated before, it's not my favorite deal but, could have some positives to it. At least its a win for hunting in general, just not in everyone's book. Congrats on the W.
 
I be curious to see how the layout of this entire deal is. Is it going to be statewide? Run during the regular season? Quota regulated per district? Different tags? Etc. Etc.

I have been on the fence on this as stated before, it's not my favorite deal but, could have some positives to it. At least its a win for hunting in general, just not in everyone's book. Congrats on the W.
Reading the current bill text, it will be "as authorized by the commission."

FWP will present a unit list that is open for black bear hound hunting and the Commission will approve or modify the list.
 
Reading the current bill text, it will be "as authorized by the commission."

FWP will present a unit list that is open for black bear hound hunting and the Commission will approve or modify the list.
Sooooo. Are you telling me that anything goes then?! Given the current commission.

I'm game for "some" houndsman opportunity for bears but, I'm not all for some free for all either. There's gotta be some level of regulation on this deal.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a hound season begin June 1 and end June 30. Maybe some form of a houndsman sub quota?

Lots of ideas out there....
 
There seems to be contradicting arguments here. Will hound hunters kill a lot of bears to help the ungulate population or will they let 99 out of 100 bears walk?
Bueller, Bueller...

I would genuinely like to hear an explanation for this. The Sportsmen's Alliance makes it sound like hunting with hounds is God's gift to the science and art of wildlife management.
 

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