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Spring Bears With Hounds Proposed

Bowhunter65

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I guess I'm not seeing where your coming up with hunters hurting hounds......
When he said dead hounds, a houndsman perceives that being shoot by other hunters , maybe I wrong. That usually the notion. I would hope not, very few hounds are ever killed pursuing big game. Grizzlies would bay up, trust me it is not fun I have been there up cat hunting a caught a grizzly.
 

EYJONAS!

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When he said dead hounds, a houndsman perceives that being shoot by other hunters , maybe I wrong. That usually the notion. I would hope not, very few hounds are ever killed pursuing big game. Grizzlies would bay up, trust me it is not fun I have been there up cat hunting a caught a grizzly.
I could be just miss understanding as we I usually am not right. I think we're on the same page as far as no one wants that. Baying a griz up would be intense. Betcha weren't planning on that one....

Your a houndsman then?
 

EYJONAS!

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Yes it was a huge surprise, hairy for minute. Called the dogs off. Yes I am a houndsmen, I am the person who started HB 468 with great pride. Passed the house FWP committee yesterday 12 - 6.
Well that's interesting so what's your whole take on this? I'm sure you have seen most of the reactions?

For the record I wasn't trying to belittle your first question either. Some people just don't understand the big game and hounds thing. I'm not an expert but have been on the dance floor a couple times.

I'm curious on your position though with this, I do respect the tradition of houndsman and methods. I think it would be pretty cool to do just unsure of dedicated seasons
 
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Bowhunter65

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Marion, Montana
Well that's interesting so what's your whole take on this? I'm sure you have seen most of the reactions?

For the record I wasn't trying to belittle your first question either. Some people just understand the big game and hounds thing. I'm not an expert but have been on the dance floor a couple times.

I'm curious on your position though with this, I do respect the tradition of houndsman and methods. I think it would be pretty cool to do just unsure of dedicated seasons
Pmed you
 

OntarioHunter

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Wow! This bill got past the committee. Man, this is starting out to be one f'ed up administration.
 

SaskHunter

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The dogs die doing what they enjoy ... but maybe not so much the part about being disemboweled.
How many bird dogs, or any dogs for that matter, get gored on branches and barbed wire every year?

These dogs want nothing but the chase, that's what they do. To think that owners would purposefully waste all that time, money and effort training these dogs only to have them get killed by bears, is a little silly.

While I don't personally have any interest in hunting with dogs, I support all who do and I'm sure it's quite the sight to see all those dogs work together.

At the end of the day, the ethics of hunting with dogs is not the issue here, but the conflicts they may have with other hunters or grizz. When it comes to legal stuff; don't like it? Don't do it!
 

Bowhunter65

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I think I have run across Bowhunter65 west of Kalispell in Browns Meadow two years ago and he/son are good guys. Hopefully this bill will open up either a pursuit/chase or harvest season in select districts.
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words.

Terry
I think I have run across Bowhunter65 west of Kalispell in Browns Meadow two years ago and he/son are good guys. Hopefully this bill will open up either a pursuit/chase or harvest season in select districts.
HB 468 is a well written bill, for me it’s about opportunity for my 16-year-old son and the younger generation of hunters in houndsmen to enjoy bear hunting with Hounds. For me it’s about the Chase in training the dogs, 99% of the time the animal that is treed is also freed.
 

ChrisB

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Mar 16, 2017
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Maybe they could have certain zones that allow hunting with Hounds. That's what Wisconsin does for bear and it seems to work fine. We as hunters need to remember there are many different cultures of hunting. For instance in some states they can and do use hounds to hunt deer. Just because it's not allowed in your area doesn't make it right or wrong
 

Bowhunter65

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So for those who've run hounds for bears, what do your hunts look like on the ground? Like from when you leave the house to getting back to the truck. Just trying to better understand the nuts and bolts.
Get up 0dark30, go to my hound yard, pick out team 6-8 hound (two lead dogs), put all the tracking collars on them, tell the hounds to load up, hit the road, meet up with friends & family & make a plan. Then get to where want to I want to start the hunt, then put 2 strike dogs and two younger hounds on top of the dog box hook the dogs strike rack. Start driving up roads hoping for strike, finally a strike. Let two lead off the top of the dog box to work the track up. The track is either hot, medium or cold. You learn to know each of your hounds individually, they are all athletes. The dogs will work up the track get it moving and then whether it’s hot or cold you’ll will throw some more dogs into the race. Some of the Bears will go out fairly easy some of the Bears seem like they have on really good running shoes. Then you’re in for a long hike. Some bears walk walk, bay up or will be forced to tree. We as houndsmen are able, age & grade, sex and ok that sow has Cubs, most of time when a sow has Cubs there in the tree with her, you know whether you will harvest each bear we tree, 99% of the time pictures or videos take and the bear is treed and freed. We take great pride in this it is good management, it is about hounds, training (years of) the companionship of friends and family. I that makes sense.
I also love a good Spot & Stalk also, sitting there with my 16 year old son glassing is big past time of ours.

The picture of my son Dylan and 9F900C6B-B01F-4C76-8E75-D2E2D141B62F.jpeg two pups he traded one of our custom archery targets for.
 

Bowhunter65

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Marion, Montana
Interesting topic from where I sit in Oregon. We used to be able to hunt bears with hounds until ballot-box biology stopped it in 1994. Bear populations have certainly increased since then, and most hunters believe we have too many bears, and they are having a significant negative impact on deer and elk. Most hunters would like to regain the ability to be able to run bears with hounds, but they see the social/political obstacles as too great to overcome at this point.

The flip side for Oregon hunters is that when we lost hounds, we got a spring season (I believe this happened at the same time.) Spring bear hunting is becoming a thing in Oregon. This year ODFW reports that there were 5000 new applicants in the drawing, and no hunt had tags left after first choices were filled. Tags that used to be easy third choice draws are now <100% as a first choice. For my family, spring bear has become a tradition, and my dad and uncle are now going and planning their own trips separate from me.

I think hunters need to think this through carefully. Using hounds will increase success, but it will subsequently decrease opportunity. Spring season is a very cool time to be in the woods, but I'm afraid hound hunting will diminish it for the larger number of spot-and-stalk hunters

QQ
Here is Idaho’s harvest rate from 2018-2020 harvest rate. Hound being the lowest. So everything in this bill is mirrored from Idaho, I worked with Idaho’s Predator management biologist on Preparing the bill. Here in the harvest chart Montana would be using the numbers off the Hounds and spot & stalk.
 

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Bowhunter65

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Is there enough area in montana with black bears without grizzly that you could conduct hound hunting in those units only? Maybe for a small portion of the regular spring beer season?
Yes, there is plenty, using the island approach staying away from the historic grizzly bear Corredor‘s will work.
 

Bowhunter65

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Ok, so my first thought is how many spot and stalk hunters can an area hold vs hound hunters? If the only want to save bear hunting is through bear hunters, then you need more bear hunters. Would adding houndsman simple add more bear hunters, or would they displace existing bear hunters in the process? Would that displacement be 1:1 or...?
Best post yet, this will increase bear hunters and the love of the sport. I believe with the harvest information from Idaho that Montana will end up vary even if this bill goes through. The two harvest rates from Idaho between 2018 and 2020 we’re very even between spot & stalk and using hounds, hounds being the lower of the two. Of those two I believe hounds would be the more selective of the two as far as hunters harvesting the Bears selectively, and that takes nothing away from the people that like to spot & stalk. I am a third-generation houndsmen my 16 -year-old son is a fourth, we take great pride in the term treed and freed. How long hunting for Black Bears is very selective. You know what the sex of the bear is and you know the grade of the bear in the age of the bear in whether a sow has Cubs or not. We practice this when we’re in Mount Lyon Hunting also and we take great pride in it.
 

Bowhunter65

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I am almost seventy years old and I don't recall hound hunting bears in Montana ever being legal. Maybe someone who is older can add to that? So, for most Montanans legalizing a spring bear hunt with hounds would indeed be "something new."
It was back 1970’s, that was the last time I believe.
 

Bowhunter65

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Marion, Montana
I haven’t read all of this thread - too many responses with most off topic.

I live in one of the heaviest bear hunted units in Idaho. Most hunters bait with a few trucks with dogs roaming the woods. There are great fights between the baiters and hounds men as hounds guy will run dogs past baits to find bears.

How does this bear hunting circus effect me? Not at all. I can always find a spot to myself. Both hound guys and baiters tend to stay on the road system. It’s not much effort on my part to hike up a hill to glass and have the world to myself.
Great statement.
 

Bowhunter65

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Marion, Montana
The dogs die doing what they enjoy ... but maybe not so much the part about being disemboweled.
You have never hunted with hounds so before you make a statement like this maybe just may you should do some homework, because you are so far off base you are getting picked off, you just don’t know what you are talking about, fact.
 
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