Spike buck question.

[SPOTTED OWL]

Kirk,

You draw that late buck tag, I doubt you'll
be shooting any spikes. They're are pretty good eating them spikes, but with the magic
tag in hand, you'll be looking for some
massive horn action with the meat!
Good luck on the draws. Hope ya score something nice!

 

[ELKCHSR]

Good Going!!!!

 

[Deerslayer]

Believe it or not............it is just an old belief that spikes don't ever make big bucks......fact is, they have just a good a chance as any buck to be a bruiser. There have been multi year studys tha document this fact. A lot of trophy bucks were spikes at one time. Do what you want where spikes are concerned as far as shooting them.......but they are just another immature buck...........no different than a young fork horn.
DS

 

[Mntman]

Deerslayer,
I would agree with you on that opinion. I have seen several spikes in the Kaibab area that had body markings to easily identify them and they were good size 3 pointers the next year. Kaibab does however have good minerals to stimulate growth like that.
What areas of CO do you hunt? I have a friend in Durango and plan on visiting him and Archery hunting Elk this year, after I get done with my hunters ed course so I am legal.

 

[Deerslayer]

Mntman.....I live in Ft' Collins.....about an hour north of Denver.

I gained what little I know about deer from over 25 years of hunting in the deep south. I had a book published by Dr. Kroll that had photos from a study done by the University of Mississippi(?) spanning over 10 years. They collected all the sheds of a dozen or so bucks they had in captivity.......about half and half spikeand yearling fork horns. They kept records for the 10 years with pics of the racks in cronological order...........and it shoe zero differnce in the spikes and fork horn later years.........with many of te spike becoming real bruisers...........

........good luck on your bow hunt......
DS

 

[Tom]

The Kerr Wildlife Management area spike study is based on hundreds of deer. They're in the process of a study with stress conditions, simulating droubt years. It seems to support their earlier finding in an amazing way. The ealier study showed that even when a spike matures, its mass is like half that of a fork horn allowed to mature under the same conditions. The spike can be an 8pt plus, but less are, a smller percentage of them, and they are smaller, on average. Here's where the research is done.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/wma/wmarea/kerr.htm Its 6,500 acres but the research is not done on all of that land.

The new study with stress conditions, helps identify the cull bucks earlier they think now. A buck that will not grow as big later appears to be a spike under stress. There stress condition is lower in protein than they need. There was just an article that came out in the July/August TTHA magazine with some of the early results of the stress spike buck study there.

I've heard of that Miss. study but never read it or talked to the people who did it, like I have the Kerr studies. If you have the reference for it, I would like to read it. Those people that did the Kerr study are at the hunting shows around here, I've visited the place where they do the studies, and I've talked to them on the phone. I hunt around that area and am more familiar with them.

I haven't bought J.Kroll's books yet. Maybe I should. He gives talks at the hunting shows around here.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 07-02-2002 12:03: Message edited by: Tom ]</font>

 

[DKO]

I agree with DS on this one ,most doe that were bred later in the cycle , that produce a fawn buck, the fawn buck will most times be a spike the first year! i beleive this also came from Miss. U. study! I also have seen captive deer that were spikes one year and racked bucks the next! alot has to do with stress as well as nutrition and i beleive that its also been traced back to dominanace and pecking order as far as nutritional intake! but who really knows!

 

[Deerslayer]

Tom.....I'm not sure if the study was the University of Miss..or Ole Miss.......or even Alabama........what I do remember was the photos in the book.....very impressive.

Dr. James Kroll has many books.....but this particular one was a thick hard back the size of an encyclopedia.......though I don't remember the name of it. I lost it in a camp fire about 6 years ago. It wouldn't be hard to find though.......and he is the nation's most respected authority on whitetail deer......except maybe there in Texas ....in most circles he is simply referred to as Dr. Deer. His work is largely responsible for the Buck management practices for many of the renowned Mississppi
Islands. I found it to be one of the best books I had ever read on the subject of deer.
DS

 

[Tom]

What does the "Miss." data say about the size of the rack of a spike buck in later years? Sure it can be a multipoint rack, but how big is it? The Kerr Wildlife Management studies say less spike bucks will become 8 points and even if they do get that many points, and even if they may be a trophy for some hunter, they will be of smaller mass, compared to a fork horn. Half the mass, that's why we shoot 'em here, to cull them out. Have you guys read anything about that?

 

[BbarC]

It will ALL boil down to genetics and nutrition. Ol Bob

 

[Deerslayer]

Tom...........that was my point.......the spikes in that study sowed no less mass.....points......anythin than the little forkys did........but you know how those mutant whitetails east of the Mississip can be!

Ol' Bob.....you are very correct........the 3 ingredients to growing trophy bucks are........age, genetics, and nutrition.......and they MUST have ALL 3...........if not, they will never reach their maximum potential. The study simply said that you can't judge a bucks potential after just one year.......like DKO stated.........a lot of late born bucks will be a spike, but may have had a bruiser for a pop, and the baddest bitch in the land for his mom.......but if he can't grow old.......while receiving a good diet, he will never max out.........
DS

 

[Tom]

DS, ok, I got it, I have to go find the study. It sounds smaller, less precise, then the Kerr study right now but I'll find it and see.
Its by Harry Jacobson from Miss. I heard Dr. James Kroll give a talk this weekend, Aug.10. During the talk he showed a set of lousy spikes from a buck born late in the years in south Texas that they caught and tagged for a study he's doing and in the fifth year of. Now several years down the road he had a picture of the buck and he is a real big trophy. That's like the Miss. study, not the TPWD study. I'm thinking the TPWD study all the bucks where born early, I don't know though. I've read where there's quite a few does that don't get pregnant the first month and it lasts 3 months, with less remaining each additional month (Halls, White-tailed Deer:Ecology and Management).

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-12-2002 08:21: Message edited by: Tom ]</font>