Gellar
Well-known member
I’m left speechless that this is your argument that a nonresident hunting license is too much money. I honestly don’t know how to respond.
South Dakota Is Losing Its Hometown Pheasant Hunters. Meanwhile, the Nonresident Business Is Booming
- Thread starter Ben Lamb
- Start date
Nick87
Well-known member
Went with a buddy once. One and done for me.
Warmer and Wild Bill,
Is there no organization or group of people willing to get enough signatures to get a statewide referendum on the ballot that limits the number of NR bird licenses sold? I would propose a NR draw with preference points. Residents should have priority and come first. If NR can only come every 3rd year to hunt pheasants, so be it. Let the residents decide. Has this been tried before? If not, it should be started. Again, residents come first.
Is there no organization or group of people willing to get enough signatures to get a statewide referendum on the ballot that limits the number of NR bird licenses sold? I would propose a NR draw with preference points. Residents should have priority and come first. If NR can only come every 3rd year to hunt pheasants, so be it. Let the residents decide. Has this been tried before? If not, it should be started. Again, residents come first.
seeth07
Well-known member
That isnt for just birds
seeth07
Well-known member
My argument is simply the value of that particular license just doesnt align with the opportunity. That is all.
seeth07
Well-known member
In a few weeks when we are in SD deer hunting, we will likely drive just another 60 miles or so and get into WY for just as good of bird hunting on a license that was half the cost and is valid for 12 months. I guess that is where im coming from as I look at value
Nick87
Well-known member
Do you put any value on time?
El Jason
Well-known member
Even if I didn’t big game hunt I’d still pay it.
South Dakota Wildlife Federation is probably the most active and successful resident advocates/lobbyist. They get money from me every year.
Lower resident hunter numbers probably correlates with small farm communities shrinking and family farms being consolidated as land prices continue to rise and folks move off the farm into town as they age.
Honestly, I don’t get too worked up by it. Seems to me like the majority of NR pheasant hunters are more than happy to shoot pen raised birds at a lodge rather than go after wild birds. I’d venture to guess a small portion of NR pheasant hunters actually hunt hard on public ground. Folks show up and slug whiskey and beers and eat at the local bar or steakhouse and hunt a couple days at a lodge or a farm they pay access for to shoot pen raised birds to at the landowner buys and releases. (Landowners leave that part out when they accept the cash from their hunters and most out of state guys don’t put two and two together that they’re seeing 5:1 rooster to hen ratios.)
Plenty of birds to be had on public for me. And I can get on a fair amount of private with my local license plates and friendly conversation.
Good pheasant habitat is good deer, waterfowl, and grouse habitat. That’s habitat that we wouldn’t have if not for the NR cash flow.
It’s a give and take.
seeth07
Well-known member
Sure do
El Jason
Well-known member
Appreciate the pragmatic perspective.
I understand the frustration with NR hunters and the desire to limit them. It makes sense and I don’t blame residents for wanting to do so. However, I’d caution them to look east and understand why so many NR hunters are going there. Long term, the enemy isn’t the hunters themselves, it’s the ag practices that ruined the habitat and hunting in the states they are coming from. Once those practices hit SD like they did MN, it won’t matter where you’re from, pheasant hunting as they know it will be history. The NR hunter buying land to enroll in CRP isn’t the enemy.
JShane
Well-known member
Let me preface what im saying with i may have misread the room here as it were.
My question as a nonresident is simply what should I do? I can't hunt moose, elk, mule deer, antelope, pheasant, grouse, chukar, huns, or even mallards in Florida. Those species dont exist here or dont migrate here.
My only alternative is to be a guest in your sandbox and play by your legislative rules. Said rules can be lobbied and a nonresident can be legislated out were a states residents so inclined. What kind of a country is that if every state in the union proceeds to return the favor to nonresident?
If i read this thread wrong my apologies.
My question as a nonresident is simply what should I do? I can't hunt moose, elk, mule deer, antelope, pheasant, grouse, chukar, huns, or even mallards in Florida. Those species dont exist here or dont migrate here.
My only alternative is to be a guest in your sandbox and play by your legislative rules. Said rules can be lobbied and a nonresident can be legislated out were a states residents so inclined. What kind of a country is that if every state in the union proceeds to return the favor to nonresident?
If i read this thread wrong my apologies.
huntin24/7
Well-known member
Very few if any guys on here are truly anti non resident. As someone who’s a resident of MT and formerly of ND who likes hunting other states as well, I feel grateful for any opportunity a state gives me as a non resident. I fully accept that I should pay significantly more, that residents get priority which might include a longer season or earlier start date, etc. even though residents in many states have better hunting and fishing opportunities than someone else, they also make other sacrifices living there too. Otherwise, every hunter would live out west. A good rule of thumb is to avoid feelings of entitlement that some NR’s show. Instead of being mad that a person can’t for example (hunt public land for upland the first 10 days in MT) be thankful you can come out any time other than that and enjoy the opportunity to hunt new country for an under $150 license.
Well said.
I don’t think it’s that people are anti-nonresident, it’s that they’re upset the quality of hunting and access continues to decline while costs continue to increase, and the nonresidents are an easy target when people are looking to get a larger piece of a shrinking pie.
Our best bet isn’t to kick people out, it’s to grow the pie. But agricultural practices and the expansion of leasing are making that a hard problem to solve.
Our best bet isn’t to kick people out, it’s to grow the pie. But agricultural practices and the expansion of leasing are making that a hard problem to solve.
Pucky Freak
Well-known member
Article: R3 is critical!
Also article: Hunter numbers are in lockstep with bird populations.
Also article: Hunter numbers are in lockstep with bird populations.
warmer
Well-known member
Like Wild Bill said, it's give and take. The GFP budget has become dependent on those NR pheasant hunters. The tourism dept. budget depends on those $ also. Local business also benefit. Hell, I benefit by getting to buy a cheap license to hunt and fish, habitat projects and better boat ramps to use. I have just learned to complain about it and live with it.
elkduds
Well-known member
A history lesson: Starting in the late 60s, my dad was part of a group of NRs who made an annual trip to SW KS for pheasant and quail hunting. Guys from OK, AZ, CO and CA made a friend of a local farmer, who gathered some campers from other locals and hosted a week of hunting for the NRs, He arranged for unpaid access to cut crops, weed rows, irrigation ponds and CPR fields that few or no others had permission on. The hunting was always good, often extraordinary, and the group continued into the 90s.
Some things changed along the way. Sons and a few daughters of the founders became old enough to hunt and were added, including me. More connections were made in the tiny community, resulting in renting houses for the hunt. For several years a local woman was hired to cook for the large group. The host farmer lost his farm, and drifted from the group. Locals who served as quasi-guides left for college and/or careers. More land changed hands, and new permissions were required. The founders of the group aged out and were replaced by younger long-term members. The postmaster died in in a grisly car crash, his many acres were sold off.
These were, to my thinking, classic pheasant drives. In fields of half a section or larger, a line of blockers would deploy. There were the old guard, the most experienced and the more accurate shooters. A line of walkers began at the opposite end of the field, and dogs were deployed. At either end of the line of walkers was the point position, usually 20ish yards ahead of the line of walkers. Point men got more shooting, and sometimes had to run toward blockers to keep running birds from escaping to either side of the converging groups of walkers and blockers. This group often consisted of 20 or more hunters. Safety was paramount. When birds flushed, shouts of "hen" and "rooster" went up. As the gap between walkers and blockers closed within shotgun range, there were reminders: "Watch your blockers." Much of the action erupted in the last 50 yards between walkers and blockers, with game vests filling with gaudy roosters. Tails and spurs were compared. It was regular for the entire group to limit out, and the hour after dark and before dinner was frantic with us rookies cleaning birds to go into the freezer. Shining times to be sure.
Early on, the group decided to hunt the 2nd weekend of season. This was the result of farmers traditionally hosting family and friend opening weekend. By the 2nd weekend almost all the local private property was available to us, permissions gained by our local connections. No $ changed hands, that would have been crass to the locals. Farming was lucrative enough to meet their financial needs. In place of payment there were gifts to the local organizers; expensive liquor, fancy boxed candies for the wives, even high end double guns. When those locals traveled, hunters hosted them and entertained them.
IIRC, In the early '90s we began to see signs declaring certain fields were leased to this or that hunting club. Rising and stocking of penned birds gained popularity. Across the road from our group would be a large group guided by a local who provided all the logistics and services we had gathered informally, but his was now a business. That young man grew up hunting with us and playing high school football with our local guides, who stayed in the small community to continue family farming. Many of "our" locals still found the business of exclusively leasing their ground for hunting distasteful, but that trend was accelerating.
Long story short, the founders died, we sons continued with ever smaller annual hunts on less available ground every year, as the guiding sand leasing of farms for hunting took over. We maintained a few treasured friend ships with locals, and somehow found access to enough previously hunted corners, ponds and stubble circles to keep the dogs tired and happy. We stayed in motels a dozen miles from the hunting grounds. Like the others, when my dad had to quit the hunt due to age, nephew and I continued making the trip for a few more years until the other factions of the group changed dates to after Christmas, my hunting dog died, nephew married. . . Scribbling this, I vividly remember Moscow locals Augie, Richard, Linda, Patty, Goose, Stack, Chad, Pete, Marsha, Andy, Daryl, Hollywood, old Gary, the Grubbs, the racetrack, the back of the feedlot, the Benches, Richard's pond, the sun, the wind, the friendships, the laughter, the competition and ribbing, children growing into grandparents, 30 years of "same guys, different trucks" photos, good dogs, bad dogs, rattlesnakes, the rooster that died flying into a power pole guy wire just before I pulled the trigger. In my dreams I still hear "watch your blockers, move up on point," the clap of shotguns, "rooster, rooster, another roooooster!"
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Some things changed along the way. Sons and a few daughters of the founders became old enough to hunt and were added, including me. More connections were made in the tiny community, resulting in renting houses for the hunt. For several years a local woman was hired to cook for the large group. The host farmer lost his farm, and drifted from the group. Locals who served as quasi-guides left for college and/or careers. More land changed hands, and new permissions were required. The founders of the group aged out and were replaced by younger long-term members. The postmaster died in in a grisly car crash, his many acres were sold off.
These were, to my thinking, classic pheasant drives. In fields of half a section or larger, a line of blockers would deploy. There were the old guard, the most experienced and the more accurate shooters. A line of walkers began at the opposite end of the field, and dogs were deployed. At either end of the line of walkers was the point position, usually 20ish yards ahead of the line of walkers. Point men got more shooting, and sometimes had to run toward blockers to keep running birds from escaping to either side of the converging groups of walkers and blockers. This group often consisted of 20 or more hunters. Safety was paramount. When birds flushed, shouts of "hen" and "rooster" went up. As the gap between walkers and blockers closed within shotgun range, there were reminders: "Watch your blockers." Much of the action erupted in the last 50 yards between walkers and blockers, with game vests filling with gaudy roosters. Tails and spurs were compared. It was regular for the entire group to limit out, and the hour after dark and before dinner was frantic with us rookies cleaning birds to go into the freezer. Shining times to be sure.
Early on, the group decided to hunt the 2nd weekend of season. This was the result of farmers traditionally hosting family and friend opening weekend. By the 2nd weekend almost all the local private property was available to us, permissions gained by our local connections. No $ changed hands, that would have been crass to the locals. Farming was lucrative enough to meet their financial needs. In place of payment there were gifts to the local organizers; expensive liquor, fancy boxed candies for the wives, even high end double guns. When those locals traveled, hunters hosted them and entertained them.
IIRC, In the early '90s we began to see signs declaring certain fields were leased to this or that hunting club. Rising and stocking of penned birds gained popularity. Across the road from our group would be a large group guided by a local who provided all the logistics and services we had gathered informally, but his was now a business. That young man grew up hunting with us and playing high school football with our local guides, who stayed in the small community to continue family farming. Many of "our" locals still found the business of exclusively leasing their ground for hunting distasteful, but that trend was accelerating.
Long story short, the founders died, we sons continued with ever smaller annual hunts on less available ground every year, as the guiding sand leasing of farms for hunting took over. We maintained a few treasured friend ships with locals, and somehow found access to enough previously hunted corners, ponds and stubble circles to keep the dogs tired and happy. We stayed in motels a dozen miles from the hunting grounds. Like the others, when my dad had to quit the hunt due to age, nephew and I continued making the trip for a few more years until the other factions of the group changed dates to after Christmas, my hunting dog died, nephew married. . . Scribbling this, I vividly remember Moscow locals Augie, Richard, Linda, Patty, Goose, Stack, Chad, Pete, Marsha, Andy, Daryl, Hollywood, old Gary, the Grubbs, the racetrack, the back of the feedlot, the Benches, Richard's pond, the sun, the wind, the friendships, the laughter, the competition and ribbing, children growing into grandparents, 30 years of "same guys, different trucks" photos, good dogs, bad dogs, rattlesnakes, the rooster that died flying into a power pole guy wire just before I pulled the trigger. In my dreams I still hear "watch your blockers, move up on point," the clap of shotguns, "rooster, rooster, another roooooster!"
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