Scary first shot, who would you blame?

[44hunter45]

2x. I don't think a hot round would've popped the primer out that way and believe it is more likely due to improper rearward obturation resulting from extra room in the chamber. You can see that the primer had some wiggle room and was pushed out and formed itself against the bolt face.

+1 for Headspace

Primer had room to back out and then was flattened by the case coming back.

In the picture of the leftover piece of the case, you can see a ring about one belt width forward of the case belt. There is something very wrong with that chambering.

If you handload, your can check that case by seeing if it will fit in the RCBS #4 or Hornady #5 shell holder and spin freely in it. (Hornady is less expensive and a little tighter, IMHO) This can tell you if excessive pressure swelled the case head.(When I trim brass in my Hornady Cam-lock trimmer, any cases that catch and spin the shell holder are thrown in the melt bucket.)

More scary, and dangerous, an improperly heat treated action or bolt.

Reinforces my opinion that barrel nuts are nuts. Before sending it back to Savage I would have an independent gunsmith run Forster gages through it to check the headspacing.

You can get them from Brownell's and do it yourself as well. They are a small enough investment that I have them for every caliber I shoot. I check every new rifle I buy. Sometime I put them in my backpack when I go to gun shows.

Headspace Gages Archives

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Not going to try. Do not want to disturb evidence. Besides, how can you? putting a rod down the bore and nothing let to tap it out. I told him to call Savage first and see what they want him to do.

Use a broken shell extractor. It should come out easily now. Also if you push in a tight enough cleaning brush the bristles will act like barbs and allow you to pull the forward part of the case out. A 44 caliber should work. I just tested a 45 caliber in a sawn off 300 WM case and it grips VERY well..

I already told him that if Savage wants the gun back I told him they need to replace it with a stainless model for his hassle. If I was Savage and that thing was the problem I would give him the rifle of his choice

I would not want it back. Too much possibility of collateral damage in the action.

BTW- Savage and Federal - both part of Vista Outdoors. Same corporation, different lawyers.

 

[Don Fischer]

I never seen a case rupture from excessive headspace before but no doubt it could. Had a 7mm mag years ago with a sloppy chamber and after three firing's the cases started separating just in from of the case head. I suppose if the slop had been worse I could have had something more like that. But, another thing is that separation is pretty far ahead of the head and that does look like a belted case. Sloppy chamber but that would be a lot of slop. Just another thought, did he clean the rifle before firing it? Could be if he didn't there was a bunch of oil in the chamber. Take a rifle with oil in the chamber and fire a round off and depending on the amount of oil pressure will jump way up. That primer is a definite pressure sign. I'd be interested in hearing what Savage and Federal say about it. Then this is the first I've heard of factory ammo doing something like that.

Something to remember about that rifle, looks like a belted case. The case headspace's on that belt, not the shoulder. My understanding years ago is that was where sloppy chamber's started out. But even then with sloppy chamber and a belted case, I have never seen anything like that on the first firing of a case. That and the primer with a factory round make me think of oil in the chamber.

 

[Don Fischer]

Whoa. Case head separation. That primer is mega flat too. Wonder if it was overloaded by Federal? Otherwise it would be excessive headspace, which is a Savage problem.

Did he clean it before going to the range? Maybe a bore obstruction of some kind could do this too.

I’d be calling both Federal and Savage.

With a belted case I'd suspect a sloppy chamber first. Thing headspace's on the belt and the head is about where that bright ring around the case in front of the belt is. That ring might indicate a sloppy chamber and maybe coming apart as it did is a really sloppy chamber.

 

[winmag]

BTW- Savage and Federal - both part of Vista Outdoors. Same corporation, different lawyers.

Vista sold Savage in 2019

 

[44hunter45]

Vista sold Savage in 2019

Thanks, I had missed that. The trouble with being a know-it-all is sometimes I'm wrong.

That does restore my respect for Vista though.

I have several friends at CCI and Speer. They are fanatical about their quality.

We'll see how Vista does with Remington. I wish they had gotten Marlin, too.

 

[ImBillT]

Incorrectly headspaced from the factory. Wouldn’t be the first Savage to have that problem.

 

[fishing4sanity]

I'm not anti-Savage, I own several of their rifles, but I do think their quality/quality control has suffered in recent years. I've never seen one do what that 300 WinMag did, but I've seen three different Savage rifles in the past few years that had to be sent back and had terrible chamber jobs from the factory. My guess is Savage missed another one in QC.

 

[winmag]

We'll see how Vista does with Remington. I wish they had gotten Marlin, too.

Carrying on a tangent:

Well Vista bought remingtons ammo business. The firearms business went to The Roundhill Group.

Vista won’t own a firearms company anymore because, among other reasons, REI won’t carry Vista products (Camelbak, etc) when Vista also owned an evil firearms company. But I guess owning multiple ammo companies is fine??

 

[WapitiBob]

You ever look inside a new savage with a borescope? I just bought a 110 long range hunter and spent a week cleaning that thing and still haven't removed all the black finish from the bore. No way on earth I was going to shoot that thing

 

[44hunter45]

@winmag

Killing the tangent. This is a cool thread and I don't want to hijack more than I already have.

PM me if you want. I'm learning a lot.

 

[ImBillT]

I'm not anti-Savage, I own several of their rifles, but I do think their quality/quality control has suffered in recent years. I've never seen one do what that 300 WinMag did, but I've seen three different Savage rifles in the past few years that had to be sent back and had terrible chamber jobs from the factory. My guess is Savage missed another one in QC.

Also not anti-savage, although I don’t own any. It’s not just a recent issue. My father-in-law bought one brand new in the ‘80s chambered in 30-06. Some ammo would misfire and have primers just barely dinged, other batches would fire. When I saw some of his cases I nearly fell over. Any ammo that would fire in that gun would get a ring around the case head from ALMOST having a case-head separation exactly as pictured. It’s a wonder he never actually had one happen. I loosened the nut, screwed the barrel down on a sized case, tightened the nut, and now he likes the gun. Ideally you would inspect things MUCH MORE THOROUGHLY, but he’d been shooting the gun for years, and I absolutely didn’t make the situation any worse.

OP—It’s the chamber in the gun, not the ammo. Most likely it’s a headspace issue that will be corrected quickly and easily by loosening the barrel nut, setting the barrel to the correct headspace, and then tightening the nut. I would either send it to Savage or take it to a good gunsmith. They will properly inspect things to make sure that there are no other issues.

This problem is not rampant, but is much more common with guns that use an adjustable barrel nut. It most likely happens because headspace gauge isn’t seated all the way against the bolt-face when the person setting the headspace screws the barrel down by hand. I wouldn’t say that it happens with Savage because their QC people are worse than anyone else. It’s more because their adjustable headspace design gives them an opportunity to screw up that is not available with other designs.

 

[devon deer]

I had no idea what headspace was so I googled it and a video by Brimstone Gunsmithing came up. He describes this same problem just shy of 3 minutes into the video about it breaking apart where your picture shows.

Like you Chris, heard of it but never really understood what it was, so found your excellent video, scary stuff!

Cheers
Richard

 

[GlockZ]

Following, I've never seen or heard about this happening with such severity on a brand new rifle. Pease keep us updated.

 

[std7mag]

Then this is the first I've heard of factory ammo doing something like that.

A few years ago Remington had a recall on some of their ammo. Mostly 270 Win if i remember correctly.
3 guys i work with hunt with the Rem pump guns in 270.
All 3 ended up buying same lot of Rem ammo.
All 3 had their guns damaged by factory ammo.
1 of them was stupid enough that he decided afterwards that he'd use it in his Rem 700. Took 1 guy holding the gun, one guy with 2ft pipe to open the bolt.

I personally have seen Win factory ammo with an extra bullet down in the case.

Mass production. Poop happens.
And product may be out the door, before they find out poop did happen.

 

[BWALKER77]

This isnt at all uncommon with belted magnums. Probaly a combo of a sloppy chamber and excessive head space..
As much as I love the 300 win mag...belts suck.

 

[Southern Elk]

Like you Chris, heard of it but never really understood what it was, so found your excellent video, scary stuff!

Cheers
Richard

I think that video nailed it. Good information there.

 

[Southern Elk]

@schmalts did the shooter experience any blowback in his face? That sounds like a good way to get hurt.

 

[schmalts]

No. Said recoil felt normal as far as he could tell.

 

[Southern Elk]

I would say he’s lucky.

 

[trasko]

Any update from OP on this?