Reservation Trespass

[smarandr]

For years I've been hunting and fishing a stretch of river that includes some reservation land. I put in outside of the reservation boundary and hunt/fish up to where I know the rze line is. Then, the only public access point down stream happens to be a bridge on a county road on the reservation. For the longest time tribal game wardens didn't seem to care if you got out at the bridge since it was the only place to leave the stream before continuing farther into the reservation.

Now it seems that tribal game wardens are citing people for trespassing when they put out at the bridge. My understanding of Idaho law is that navigable rivers are public transportation corridors, and county roads and bridges constitute public access points to those rivers. I think the tribe is exceeding its authority--does anyone else have any experience/expertise that could help me out?

 

[belly-deep]

For years I've been hunting and fishing a stretch of river that includes some reservation land. I put in outside of the reservation boundary and hunt/fish up to where I know the rze line is. Then, the only public access point down stream happens to be a bridge on a county road on the reservation. For the longest time tribal game wardens didn't seem to care if you got out at the bridge since it was the only place to leave the stream before continuing farther into the reservation.

Now it seems that tribal game wardens are citing people for trespassing when they put out at the bridge. My understanding of Idaho law is that navigable rivers are public transportation corridors, and county roads and bridges constitute public access points to those rivers. I think the tribe is exceeding its authority--does anyone else have any experience/expertise that could help me out?

I'm not familiar with Idaho law, but can say that "navigable" has many different definitions under the law in general, and so just because it is navigable for one purpose does not make it navigable for another.

Here in MT, the definition for navigability for purposes of recreation is much broader than that for title.

 

[sweetnectar]

For what its worth, tribal lands are sovereign in the scene they answer to the federal government and not what the state says. So I don't know if Idaho law means anything in this case unless the county road right of way falls under the state laws...which I would think it does? I guess a lot of it depends on who that "county road" belongs too and if you somehow get out of the stream onto tribal land? Wish I knew more to help.

 

[idnative1948]

For years I've been hunting and fishing a stretch of river that includes some reservation land. I put in outside of the reservation boundary and hunt/fish up to where I know the rze line is. Then, the only public access point down stream happens to be a bridge on a county road on the reservation. For the longest time tribal game wardens didn't seem to care if you got out at the bridge since it was the only place to leave the stream before continuing farther into the reservation.

Now it seems that tribal game wardens are citing people for trespassing when they put out at the bridge. My understanding of Idaho law is that navigable rivers are public transportation corridors, and county roads and bridges constitute public access points to those rivers. I think the tribe is exceeding its authority--does anyone else have any experience/expertise that could help me out?

Have you actually gone to Fort Hall and talked to anybody? Might be worth your time and effort to get some clarification from them. Who knows.....
Have you ever been to Blackfoot?

 

[DHaffner]

I agree with your interpretation. The next question would be is it worth it to you to fight the citation in court?

 

[smarandr]

Belly Deep: Idaho code has carved out some very favorable public access statutes for recreational purposes too. If you can float a boat in it, it's a public waterway.

Sweetnectar: This is kind of the sticking point. Sovereignty generally only applies to tribal members on tribal lands. Non tribal members on tribal lands gets very murky very quickly. And there has been a lot of sabre rattling lately over who has jurisdiction over what. I think this new "enforcement" is a symptom of other issues currently being debated in my part of the state.

ID Native: No, I haven't been out to Fort Hall, and I doubt it would do any good. The level of corruption and cronyism out there is unbelievable. Then again I suppose that could work for me; if I slip the right guy a few bucks who know what I could accomplish .

 

[smarandr]

I agree with your interpretation. The next question would be is it worth it to you to fight the citation in court?

Absolutely if it wasn't a tribal court.

 

[idnative1948]

Belly Deep: Idaho code has carved out some very favorable public access statutes for recreational purposes too. If you can float a boat in it, it's a public waterway.

Sweetnectar: This is kind of the sticking point. Sovereignty generally only applies to tribal members on tribal lands. Non tribal members on tribal lands gets very murky very quickly. And there has been a lot of sabre rattling lately over who has jurisdiction over what. I think this new "enforcement" is a symptom of other issues currently being debated in my part of the state.

ID Native: No, I haven't been out to Fort Hall, and I doubt it would do any good. The level of corruption and cronyism out there is unbelievable. Then again I suppose that could work for me; if I slip the right guy a few bucks who know what I could accomplish .

Well then.... Not much has changed since I left Blackfoot.

 

[Carrion Carrier]

Reservations are sovereign nations. They can do whatever they want. That's how it is in MT too. You are on tribal land and they control it.

 

[DHaffner]

Once you are off the res, can they extradite you? I mean what is their collection method? (for real question I don't know) That is like them saying you they can ticket you for trespassing when you drive across the res on a highway...

 

[sweetnectar]

Lots of thoughts.... I would think that a state owned highway through tribal land is owned by the state and regulated by the state. For example, if you were speeding a state trooper can still pull you over on the state owned highway that crossed through a reservation. If you are speeding on a tribal highway then a state trooper doesn't have jurisdiction. You would have to then be ticketed by a tribal cop, or US Marshal. So I think the answer lies in who owns the land were you get out. That would determine the jurisdiction and then you look at what laws apply to that jurisdiction. If the tribe ownes it then there isn't much you can do about it. If the county ownes a right of way then I'd think you'd be just fine.

 

[DHaffner]

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers owns all our navigable waterways.

 

[smarandr]

Lots of thoughts.... I would think that a state owned highway through tribal land is owned by the state and regulated by the state. For example, if you were speeding a state trooper can still pull you over on the state owned highway that crossed through a reservation. If you are speeding on a tribal highway then a state trooper doesn't have jurisdiction. You would have to then be ticketed by a tribal cop, or US Marshal. So I think the answer lies in who owns the land were you get out. That would determine the jurisdiction and then you look at what laws apply to that jurisdiction. If the tribe ownes it then there isn't much you can do about it. If the county ownes a right of way then I'd think you'd be just fine.

That's the exact line of logic I'm following. Trouble is that the tribal authorities aren't.

I've also done a little more research and have confused myself even more. One side of the road is deeded property (land sold to someone other than a tribal member) which opens up a whole other can of jurisdictional issues.

If this was anywhere else in the state I'm 99.9% sure that everything I'm doing is ok. The problem seems to be both tribal and non tribal authorities can't seem to agree on who has jurisdiction in these gray areas of the law. It may take someone to fight a citation a ways up through the court system to get a definitive answer on the subject.

 

[TOM IN TENNESSEE]

A.--Call Billy Jack!
B.---Show your Democrat Party Affiliation Card
C.--Show your Casino play cards and tell them you are there to look for a good locale for a new one
D.---Accidently drop a brown paper sack with a bottle in it beside your boat or vehicle

 

[Topgun 30-06]

That works for me, LOL!!!

 

[TOM IN TENNESSEE]

Before anyone jumps to conclusion that a Tennessean knows nuttin bout a Res, I have used the bottle method in SK with First Nations and in SD with Souix...

 

[smarandr]

Problem solved. I spoke to a guy in the Tribal Land Use office and he told me there was kind of a gentleman's agreement that supported my position. However, he wasn't sure what would happen if a game warden broke the agreement and cited me. So he told me to drive out to the tribal headquarters and pick up a trespass permit for free, that way I'm protected if I run into a game warden who has an axe to grind.

Didn't have to use the bottle I had in a brown paper sack waiting in my truck for backup

 

[idnative1948]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! Didn't some yokel from Blackfoot axe you if you had talked to them in Fort Hall? Good to hear that it may work out for you. Keep us posted.

 

[smarandr]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! Didn't some yokel from Blackfoot axe you if you had talked to them in Fort Hall? Good to hear that it may work out for you. Keep us posted.

Yeah, whoduv thunk it would actually work?

Floated the stretch the other day and didn't get hassled. Of course in all the years I've been doing this I've only been checked by tribal game wardens twice, so I guess the odds of running into them remain slim.

Of course, this all got started because I heard about the citations through a friend of a friend. So it's entirely possible I got some bad intel because the guy that issued me the trespass permit thought that I probably wouldn't need it.