Rep Russ Fulcher Public Land open letter.

[BuzzH]

I think it would be great to focus on the statements rather than the people making them- going into ad hominem territory is usually the first sign of the breakdown of self-discipline required for a good conversation.

That said: what specific statement do you find illogical?

That you provided exactly zero proof that Idaho can afford to manage what is now federal lands within its borders. Keep in mind that experts hired to prove it, all concluded there is no way Western States could afford it. Numerous firms were hired by state legislatures in Western States during PLT talks...for sure in Wyoming and Utah.

Just because you say you're good enough to play in the NBA doesn't mean you're going to be drafted.

Just because you say Idaho can afford it, doesn't mean they can.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I think it would be great to focus on the statements rather than the people making them- going into ad hominem territory is usually the first sign of the breakdown of self-discipline required for a good conversation.

That said: what specific statement do you find illogical?

"That said, there are very easy and obvious ways for them to improve their budget condition, as is the case with every other western state." Treeshark

Just an example of a glittering generality with no substance, no accurate information, no base of logical conclusion, nor valid realistic solution. It's merely an abstract opinion.
To "bite" into your bait of desiring to perpetuate, prolong, and stir more controversy would be to attempt to reply to your question further.
You would/will never accept what others present. It is not "good conversation". It's typically aversion to other's opinion ... no matter how well supported with truth, logic, and reality.

 

[Treeshark]

When some of the states we are discussing don’t even have a state income tax, do you not agree that they are not maximizing their ability to be self sufficient? That seems fairly self-evident, I’m surprised to hear you think that is a stretch.

 

[Treeshark]

Just because you say Idaho can afford it, doesn't mean they can.

I don’t agree. Think outside the box for ways for states to make money… like WAY out of the box. In addition to getting rid of a ton of waste, states have a huge opportunity that they’re choosing not to realize because they currently don’t have to.

There is a big difference between not being able to afford something and not wanting to do what it takes to pay for it.

 

[Perlodid]

I don’t agree. Think outside the box for ways for states to make money… like WAY out of the box. In addition to getting rid of a ton of waste, states have a huge opportunity that they’re choosing not to realize because they currently don’t have to.

There is a big difference between not being able to afford something and not wanting to do what it takes to pay for it.

At the risk of being redundant, I think you are arguing what is theoretically possible and they are telling you what will actually happen with 99% certainty based on Idaho's political history + the massive cost to manage as much federal land as Idaho has + similar situations in other Western states. Just because there is a theoretical scenario where Idaho MIGHT be able to pay for some level of management if they restructured their entire budget/tax structure/political ideology or whatever it would take, doesn't mean there's a chance in hell of it ever happening. The processes standing in the way of what people "want to do" to pay for state management of federal lands can't be disregarded in this conversation.

 

[Treeshark]

Good points made there, @Perlodid- I think you’re right in that it would face significant headwinds (to say the least). But to say it’s outright not possible is just not accurate in my opinion.

 

[BuzzH]

Good points made there, @Perlodid- I think you’re right in that it would face significant headwinds (to say the least). But to say it’s outright not possible is just not accurate in my opinion.

Tell that to the people that are experts in such things...of which, you aren’t one.

 

[BuzzH]

When some of the states we are discussing don’t even have a state income tax, do you not agree that they are not maximizing their ability to be self sufficient? That seems fairly self-evident, I’m surprised to hear you think that is a stretch.

Let me break the news, an income tax on 550,000 wyoming residents, many of whom dont work, will not fund wildfire mitigation on federal lands here.

Any more great ideas? I hope you didn't buy any air Jordan's when you said you should make the NBA.

 

[Treeshark]

Any more great ideas?

As a matter of fact I do!

You’re just scratching the surface with the state income tax. There is a lot more meat on that bone.

 

[TheTone]

Man maybe the Idaho legislature should hire you to fix our current budget problems, but hands off everything else please

 

[Wildabeest]

"That said, there are very easy and obvious ways for them to improve their budget condition, as is the case with every other western state." Treeshark

I’m convinced he’s alluding to the fact that states could easily raise tag prices for NR even further to pay for all of this. He just doesn’t want to say it out loud.

 

[Treeshark]

I’m convinced he’s alluding to the fact that states could easily raise tag prices for NR even further to pay for all of this. He just doesn’t want to say it out loud.

That’s one great example of something that states could choose to do in order improve their balance sheets in a state-transfer scenario. Heck, they can (and do) that currently.

You’re just scratching the surface @Wildabeest- I was thinking way farther outside the box than that, but it’s not a bad first step

 

[Treeshark]

One thing I can’t figure out: why would a state like Idaho, with their state budget issues, sell premium products at such steeply discounted rates?

If that was allowed to happen in a business, the CEO would be out on their keister so fast their head would spin.

 

[TheTone]

Maybe because fish and game license and tag sales don’t go into the states general fund?

It’s an easy situation to fix but taxing wealthy people, businesses and commercial properties doesn’t fly well

 

[Treeshark]

It’s an easy situation to fix

I would say simple may be a better word here, definitely not easy for the reasons you’ve outlined.

Regardless, I agree- it’s clearly possible. It’s easy to confuse people not wanting to be able to pay for something vs them not being able to.

 

[rogerthat]

This was studied multiple times @Treeshark thousands of hours and dollars spent researching this. The conclusion is always that some of the lands would need to be sold into private ownership. You remind me of my 2 year old son when he plays and imagines he is part of the paw patrol. I mean I guess that could be theoretically possible too.

 

[Treeshark]

This was studied multiple times @Treeshark thousands of hours and dollars spent researching this. The conclusion is always that some of the lands would need to be sold into private ownership.

I can’t recall making claim that might not be necessary.