Removing Doug Sayer from Wild Sheep Foundation for Idaho political strong-arming

[Josh Kuntz]

IDelkslayer, you are spot on. For those that don't know, the Idaho Fish & Game tried to get a fee increase bill passed through the legislature last year. I don't have any statistics on this, but my understanding from most folks I talk to is that residents are generally in favor of this fee increase. I believe it has been over 10 years since the last increase. The legislators (Moyle/Bair) that are pushing for auction tags jumped in and screwed up the fee increase bill, basically holding it hostage and saying it would only go through if the IDFG commission supported the increase in auction tags. This has to be politics at it's worst. Idaho hunters are TRYING TO PAY MORE in order to better fund the IDFG department, but these f-ing guys won't let a "clean" fee increase bill even go to a vote.

It is really damn frustrating that a tiny number of guys, probably less than 10 key players, are trying to re-invent the wildlife management rules so they can personally benefit, while happily bending over the average Idaho resident AND non-resident hunter. Their plan is to simply be better at politics than the sportsmen community and the IDFG department. The IDFG department cannot really fight back because they rely on the legislature to provide their budget, so that leaves the fight up to us every day hunters. And since most of us have jobs, families, and other time commitments, we are at a natural disadvantage.

If WSF would remove Sayer, it would show the average (busy) hunter that something important is going on and they should probably pay attention and raise their voice. Having dozens or even hundreds of us here on Hunt Talk discuss this will only serve to move the needle so far. We could really use the support of some brave leaders of notable conservation groups and the hunting community to call BS on these actions. WSF is obviously the best suited to lead the charge on this, since Sayer is the chairman of the board.

 

[grandejuan]

How many Idaho folks remember Dr. Bob De Grazia's hard work to get that one auction tag through the legislature. Gov. Andrus was happy to sign that bill, but never thought it would ever pass and get to his desk. Now it seems you just run it through the best legislature money can buy. I hope I'm wrong about this. GJ

 

[Trial153]

It's interesting to see the WSF circling the wagons around Sayer on FB. They been either defending sayer in a scripted response or they been deleting comments from critics asking for his Resignation

 

[Elkmagnet]

It's interesting to see the WSF circling the wagons around Sayer on FB. They been either defending sayer in a scripted response or they been deleting comments from critics asking for his Resignation

It looks like it's harder for them to remove reviews than it is to a comment. A few reviews with the words Doug and Sayer on their Facebook page

 

[Trial153]

It looks like it's harder for them to remove reviews than it is to a comment. A few reviews with the words Doug and Sayer on their Facebook page

Yes the reviews are still there however about a dozen comments went by the way side. At first WSF responded to all them with the canned response. Then they were just deleted.

 

[huntid73]

Well if that is the route they are going to take, then it's obvious that unless an absolute uproar is created, they will try to sweep this issue under the rug. And as an Idaho resident and hunter, I would certainly pay a little more for my licenses and tags to better fund the Fish and Game. Although I think they make their mistakes, they have listened to the hunters when they ask for our opinions, and to me that is pretty damn important.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

I can't say that it surprises me that a sheep hunting organization is partial to their well off and politically connected members given that sheep hunting is the most expensive North American big game pursuit. DU refused to fold to popular opinion because of a wealthy donor being a selfish idiot, so I'm not surprised that an organization who has an even more high end clientele would be any different.

 

[grandejuan]

Theodore Roosevelt and his friends that started B&C were wealthy and politically connected folks. How were they able to start the conservation movement and set aside the vast majority of our public lands for all of the American people instead of just setting the system up to benefit only themselves? Where are the leaders of our organizations now? I could get the idea that hunting belongs to themselves and their friends with a few dry husks for the public. What's wrong with you guys. Man up and prove you are the real successors of TR, Pinchot and Grinell. Idaho seems to be blessed/cursed with a family that wants to run not just the state agency and IDWSF but the WSF nationally. Money talks and bullsh*t walks. Are the members of the WSF board real leaders or just a bunch of BSers. GJ My opinion.

 

[6speed]

After reading the WSF statement I decided to post a review on their FB page as well. See below

The justification of Doug Sawyer's actions by stating he was taking part in the "democratic process" is entirely misinformed. Democracy, derived from a Greek word meaning "rule of commoners" is centered around the idea that everyone should have equal rights and be allowed to participate in making decisions. When over 70% of Idaho sportsmen told the Idaho Fish and Game Commission that we did not want additional auction tags allocated and the commission made a decision based upon the overwhelming opposition to the addition of auction tags that was by definition democracy.

When Doug Sayer used his wealth and position within the WSF to convince the Governor to not reappoint 2 commissioners who listened to the sportsmen of Idaho that was not democracy. When Doug Sayer used his wealth to lobby for the Idaho Governor sheep tag, stepped over all other hunters in the limited entry system by purchasing the tag and skirted the once in a lifetime status of all Idaho trophy species by purchasing the tag 3 times that was not democracy. When Doug Sayer used his wealth and position attempting to force politicians to pass a law that would require the Idaho Fish and Game to move 40 non resident tags from the limited entry draw to an auction system where only wealthy hunters would have the opportunity to ever get such a tag it was in fact the very opposite of democracy. Using wealth and power to circumvent the will of the people is not democracy it is oligarchy, "rule by the rich".

If WSF wants to promote a Kings Deer system as opposed to supporting North American Model of Wildlife management where wildlife is accessible by all that is up to the WSF and it's members but to call these actions democracy is either ignorant or disingenuous.

 

[Sawtooth]

Very well stated 6speed.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

After reading the WSF statement I decided to post a review on their FB page as well. See below

The justification of Doug Sawyer's actions by stating he was taking part in the "democratic process" is entirely misinformed. Democracy, derived from a Greek word meaning "rule of commoners" is centered around the idea that everyone should have equal rights and be allowed to participate in making decisions. When over 70% of Idaho sportsmen told the Idaho Fish and Game Commission that we did not want additional auction tags allocated and the commission made a decision based upon the overwhelming opposition to the addition of auction tags that was by definition democracy.

When Doug Sayer used his wealth and position within the WSF to convince the Governor to not reappoint 2 commissioners who listened to the sportsmen of Idaho that was not democracy. When Doug Sayer used his wealth to lobby for the Idaho Governor sheep tag, stepped over all other hunters in the limited entry system by purchasing the tag and skirted the once in a lifetime status of all Idaho trophy species by purchasing the tag 3 times that was not democracy. When Doug Sayer used his wealth and position attempting to force politicians to pass a law that would require the Idaho Fish and Game to move 40 non resident tags from the limited entry draw to an auction system where only wealthy hunters would have the opportunity to ever get such a tag it was in fact the very opposite of democracy. Using wealth and power to circumvent the will of the people is not democracy it is oligarchy, "rule by the rich".

If WSF wants to promote a Kings Deer system as opposed to supporting North American Model of Wildlife management where wildlife is accessible by all that is up to the WSF and it's members but to call these actions democracy is either ignorant or disingenuous.

That's a bullseye right there. I'll buy you a beer for that one.

 

[grandejuan]

When TR was president, Mark Hannah, the top Republican political boss of the era said, speaking of TR, "We bought the son of a bitch and he didn't stay bought." I'm sure Mr Sayer feels that he has bought both the IDWSF, Gov Otter and the WSF BOD with his 6 figure "Donations". Where among these board members is the one leader who won't stay "bought" and demand his resignation. Who has the guts??? G J My opinion.

 

[LopeHunter]

When TR was president, Mark Hannah, the top Republican political boss of the era said, speaking of TR, "We bought the son of a bitch and he didn't stay bought." I'm sure Mr Sayer feels that he has bought both the IDWSF, Gov Otter and the WSF BOD with his 6 figure "Donations". Where among these board members is the one leader who won't stay "bought" and demand his resignation. Who has the guts??? G J My opinion.

Spot on. A prostitute does not talk back to the pimp. If you want to know who your master is, ask yourself who it is you are not allowed to openly criticize. That is your master.

Obviously, Sayer is the master of the WSF Board. They are dead to me now. They no longer represent the WSF membership as they work for Sayer. RMEF is a great organization if you are looking for a new place to direct what would have been WSF money and involvement. The WSF Board is about to get a lesson in how social media works and I suspect for the Board to be this incompetent that many of the Board members are using flip phones and spiral calendar appointment books. Perhaps they can ask their grandkids to explain FB, Twitter, etc.

 

[huntid73]

6speed, you nailed it! It will be interesting to see if that review stays up.

 

[idelkslayer]

If anyone thinks that we need these auction tags to fund conservation consider this: The 1 auction tag in Idaho for Bighorn sheep sells for about $100,000-$150,000, I think the record was $180,000 set in 2005 but most years it's much lower. Each year in Idaho there are over 150,000 hunters. If you increase the cost of a hunting license by just 1 dollar you match or exceed the money made by the auction tag.

 

[Trial153]

This shit really pisses me off. We have an organization like WSF that plays on our natural desire as hunter conservationist to help persevere an animal that we love. Many of us get on board knowing full well how limited our chances are to ever hunt a BH and how unlikely we are to even find a tag in our mail box.

Then have pay to play mindset bombarding every facet of our sport. States like Idaho while not perfect are the unfortunate exception, and it should be a model that other work towards becoming more like. But here we find ourself in bed with an organization who's president is advancing a position ( yea it's his opinion..not the organization yadda yadda...save that crap for someone a little more naïve ) that takes steps to making the resource even less assessable to the majority of hunters. What we see is those with the means infulenceimg the rules to befit an narrower and narrower group( themselves).
Unfortunately this is typical of what is going one all throughout every facet of our government. A push back or maybe a punch back is in order. "If not us, who? If not now, then when? "

 

[Elkmagnet]

After reading the WSF statement I decided to post a review on their FB page as well. See below

I'm not seeing it on wsf.
Was it removed?
Linky Link?

 

[Trial153]

https://www.facebook.com/WildSheepFoundation/

See the review section on the right hand center of the page. All the negative comments that have been posted in diffent areas are now deleted. Only the reviews remain.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I am just not seeing his specific response. Probably overlooking it.

 

[grandejuan]

"Remember that the mantle of leadership is not the cloak of comfort, but the robe of responsibility. Accountability is not for the intention, but for the deed. You must continue to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong"...Thomas S Monson.


It's time for the WSF board to stand tall and be real leaders and show Mr Sayer and his wallet the door.
Same could be said of IDWSF BOD and Gov Otter. GJ My opinion.