Realistic Goals

[Hntnhrd]

Where should I set my sights for trophy size? We are putting together plans for South africa in 2008. What should I be looking for in trophy quality. My main three are KUDU GEMSBOK and BUSHBUCK. Would I be out of line asking for a 55 inch + KUDU and a 40 inch bull gemsbok? I have know IDEA about bushbuck I just think they are beautiful animals and would make a great mount. WE are planning a 10 day safari with these three aniamls being are primary goal. Impala and zebra would be nice also. Any of the other animals hold no interest to me right now. Unless the PH said that it could be a new world record I would pass and concentrate on the first three.
Just curious, thanks for any advice.

 

[Hntnhrd]

Just found a thread from JJ from awhile ago. I quess I need to phrase what I am looking for in a Kudu. I like the bulls that are wide but look long that flare out at the tips and have ivory tips.
One place we looked into the reference said that they recommend you shoot a bull if it looks bigger than 48 inches. Does a 48 inch bull just flat look smaller than a 55 inch bull?

 

[JJHACK]

you will be hard pressed to find a 40" bull Gemsbok anyplace. That's a hella big bull. About like a 60" kudu.

Realistic is a trophy collection on one trip where all the game meets SCI minimums, and a couple maybe better. Setting your standards for a 55" bull will mean you could go home without one. Realistic in my opinion is an old 50" bull Kudu and a 36" bull Gemsbok. As far as Bush buck goes.......they are targets of opportunity much of the time. Anything you see which meets legal shooting minimums would be a shooter. You could go to Africa several times to shoot your first one much less hold out for anything exceptional.

A general bag plains game hunt is just that. A hunt to collect several nice trophies and have a great time hunting each day. As soon as you start putting a score on them, it's a single animal trophy hunt which means you will sacrifice numbers for just a couple exceptional animals.

Lets put it this way. Say you're stalking a beautiful kudu bull which might go 52-54" but fits the configuration of horn shape you like. But you told the PH you wanted a 55" bull. No while stalking this bull you see a 14" bushbuck not a giant trophy but a really great specimen that anyone would be proud of. You want to shoot the Kudu but the PH is not sure yet..........you pass the bushbuck to get a better look at the Kudu, then the PH says it's not 55" and you end up with nothing rather then at least one fantastic animal.

When you hunt Africa the first time for general bag trophies you are not gonna get a lot of second chances throught the week or ten days to be ver picky. Figure you have about 1 day or 3 hunting periods per animal. There are two hunting periods per day for example. Pass on a good specimen and shoot nothing for a couple days and your way behind. Now you have to start shooting what ever pops up to fill the list of animals you desire.

Much better to have 4 days and one animal to shoot, then 4 animals and one day remaining. No good PH will let you shoot an immature animal. So when he suggests it's a good representitive you should take it. If you really desire a single huge trophy then make your hunt about one animal and just hunt hard for that single one. On every hunt I see exceptional animals of one species or another, but rarely are all the animals extreme trophies for one single hunter.

Going in with very high expectations on the "score" is the surest way to have a dissapointing trip. Go to shoot a lot of game and have some fun in the most wonderful hunting location on earth. Let the fate of the big boys fall where it may.

 

[Hntnhrd]

Thanks JJ. When I get there numbers of score won't matter. It will be " will I be happy looking at that animal on the wall". I really want to limit myself to 4 animals on my first safari. So that I can enjoy the hunt and be picky about animals I take. I recently took a Gemsbok (oryx) on the White sands missle range in New Mexico. It was a cow that was 38 1/2 and just misses Gold SCI. It will never go in the book though. I am not about seeing my name in print. I would like a bull to go with it that is bigger. If I don't find it then gives me an excuse to go again .

I quess What I am really looking for is as I am talking to booking agents or PH's themselves what should I ask and what should I beleive. One told me and actully showed me a picture of a 46" gems. Looked like a cow and he said it was a cow. But he also said they took a bull last year that scored 111. No picture with him. Should I ask if it is realistic to kill a 55 inch + Kudu, Or just let them show me pictures of the quality available?

 

[Moosie]

Hntnhrd, Can you tell the difference between a 50" or a 55" Kudo ? I would think that would be hard.... When I go, I would ...Errr "will".. take a good representation of a Critter and have a good time.

 

[JJHACK]

Just go to this website ( www.huntingadventures.net ) and read the info, then we should talk on the phone. I have no issue with the truth. You will hear exactly what the hunt will be like and what to expect.

Around about July first the guys from this site hunting with me will be back and rested up enough to post some photo's and tell you about the place and the way we run things first hand. Make your decisons after that.

For the record almost all the RW record book animals for Gemsbok are cows.

You also listed a measure of 38 and another score of 111. Be very careful about mixing the scoring methods. Stick with one or the other. Bulls over 40" are a very rare exception, much like Kudu over 60"

Bull Gemsbok over 36 and Bull Kudu over 50 are a reasonable expectation. Just as an example we have a 55" bull mounted in the lodge. Most visitors ask about it and say Is that a 60" bull or they say is that a 50" bull? none know what it is by looking. We had a few PH's over one afternoon and the question came up about the bull there. The estimates ranged from 52-62" not a single one guessed 55" though. It's not easy on the wall and certainly not easy in the bush with a fleeting moment to pass judgement.

I've had over 300 hunters now and I've not had a single one dissapointed in the trip. Peter ( impala) works the property next to me and has hunted with me a few years. He will tell you the same thing. We simply don't have dissapointed hunters or problems. We have been doing this long enough to get it right and have great success.

Book a trip with either one of us and let us worry about the details. You just get ready to shoot straight when we need you to!

 

[Hntnhrd]

JJ actually went to your site yesterday. I will give you a call this week. Wen I mentioned scores and measurements My cow was 38 1/2 inches and scored just under 90 inches. Was really psyched about drawing that tag so I spent alot of time researching these animals. I feel got pretty good trying to tell the difference between bull and cow. Actually put different length black sticks premeasured at different yardages and looked through all my optics to try to get used to judgeing. No where near the caliber of someone like yourself that does it everyday. When I shot mine we felt it was well over 36 and we were right.
I really hope no ones thinks I am sounding cocky. That was not my intention. I just want to know that if I am going to spend 20K on this trip that I am heading to an area with quality trophies. With wife and daughter along with plane tickets hunt and trophy fees it will be expensive.

I have seen a bunch of mounted Kudu lately. I know what I would like to see in a bull. Size is not the main factor. That is why I am asking what to be looking for. What should I be asking?
Went to meet with a guy in Missoula today for the second time. Was super impressed after the first visit. Have some serious doubts now after the second trip. Anyway Thanks for the imput.

 

[impala]

Good advice from JJ . I Have been hunting for 13 years professionally and lectured at the PH academy for 4 years , the thing that gets most PH's shaking is to tell them to quarantee sizes. I Like the way you say "can I ask for a 55" kudu ".Tell the Ph what you want and the shape and he will try his best to get you that. Any PH that loves his job will go out of his way to satisfy the needs of his friendly clients.

On average a good shooting client will leave Africa with 80% of the trophies in the book.We judge the animals by the longest horn and still hunt by the ROWLAND AWARD system when we judge them which is much higher on entry level than SCI.

I was with when the first 60" kudu was taken on JJ's place. Hell man me and JJ even had a kudu rodeo one time.THE MAN KNOWS HIS STUFF. My first client last year ask for a 52" kudu on the first morning of the hunt he shot a 64" kudu the new number 10 in the world .I shot a 61" with my bow last year .BUT please remember that this will not hapen every season.

You sound like a guy that will enjoy Africa and will get addicted to it . Friend of mine lives Phoenix and we will complete his african 29 this year after he just bought a 7 day package in 2000.

Ask, be nice and you will be amazed

 

[JJHACK]

Peter I had forgotten about the "rodeo" I guess it was such an unbelievable story that I never bothered to tell it without somebody to back it up for me.

Now with you here I guess I can tell a bit of it.

We had a hunter a few years ago on a hunt that Peter and I were working together. This particular fella was a handful to say the least. The up side was that his partner was among the best guys I've ever had the pleasure to be around. How these two guys could be friends was beyond me. They were such different people.

It's gonna be hard to write this in the the detail needed to be clear and really explain how things happened. But I'l try to cover it in a short form. We were hunting in the same area each with our own hunter going 1X1. I heard a shot near by and we, my hunter and I .... decided to see if we could help load the game or drive the truck over for them. When we arrived Peters hunter had shot a nice Kudu in the neck or back. It was down but not dead, not even close to dead. We waited a few moments expecting it to expire any second. We sent the tracker to fetch the truck and were clearing brush for photo's.

Peter and I looked at each other and decided as we have done countless times to just sever the spine where it joins the skull. We have each done this more times then we can count. So I walked over to the bull and stood with one leg on a horn and my hands on the other horn. I was facing the same directon as the bull who was laying on his side. I think I handed Peter my knife and he crouched down to sever the spine.

Well.......... this bulls spine injury was healed at about the same instant that the knife was inserted into the skin. He jumped up with my one leg sliding over the top of his head, and the other behind his neck. I was strattled with one horn in front of me and the other behind me. Hanging on with both hands as the bull stood up. At this instant Peter further shoved the knife in as the bull was almost standing. In the next moment the two hunters were cycling the actions on the guns with me on the bulls head and Peter hanging onto the bull and shoving the kinfe in. We both yelled at exactly the same instant "DON"T SHOOT" Lord help us this situation was bad enough without these guys trying to shoot this bull with both of us dangling from the head and back.

As it was they had a video camera and never turned it on. That would have been about the best 30 second clip of what would have seemed to be the two most insane PH's in the whole of Africa for that moment. The Bull lurched forward and with me on the head and Peter on the back our weight was appearently enough to break his neck when he fell to the ground again.

I was shook up a bit, but it all seemed in good fun a few moments later when we had the situation back under control again. You know a kudu is a pretty tall animal when you see them standing in the bush. But they actually seem even taller when your sitting on his head with a horn in front and in back of you. That's one of the most bizzare events of my entire hunting career.

I'm glad Peter was there with me. Not many guys I would have trusted to sort out an injury problem or a dangerous situation then him. Thanks for the reminder of this Peter, it was a hella good time...........at least now after we are both safe anyway!

 

[impala]

Yeah a bullet up the arse would have been worst than a horn in the arm. Still wonder why the tracker packed his shoes and ran for the bush.I will be in Washington moday the 19th march will see you then

 

[Hntnhrd]

If you two will guarentee a reapeat of that performance I will book a trip right now!!!! LOL

You never know when It will hit the fan do you??