Rancher/outfitter close public road in eastern MT

[Forkyfinder]

I don’t have access to it, and would expect nothing less than a trespassing fine were I arrogant enough to drive through the gate without first speaking to the landowner.

So speaking with him grants you access?

Looking to fill a b tag.

 

[DP_PublicLands]

Ya’ll are forgetting about prescriptive use, what it is, and why it’s a thing.

A gas tax road is a solid showing for the judge to grant a prescriptive use easement.

Want to know one of the reasons why prescriptive use is a thing? Some view it as a takings of private property. Others view it as reversing a takings of public property. Back in the day, when neighbors were neighbors, and roads were just simply roads to places for people to travel and not a tool to control exclusive access to public land, documentation wasn’t always kept - it wasn’t needed. Ya just drove the road.

Not saying that’s the case here, but just saying even if there’s not a perfected easement that doesn’t mean the road shouldn’t be public.

What bothers me the most here is the stupid excuses as to why the gate is there. It’s obvious that it’s to block access to the public land and any other excuse is BS. Just look at the map. At least be honest about it. If the dude just said “I put the gate there because I can and it stops everyone but me from accessing that public land”, how would you feel? Would you support that Eric?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Putting the gate further east where the road leaves BLM and goes back onto 7 Blackfoot private would be more understandable to not have public travelling right past all the outbuildings and such for me. The existing location is a pretty good indicator of the motivations for the gate.

Edit: I didn't fully grasp the context of the quote below first go through. When he references "allowing access to HIS entire ranch" he must be referring to BLM and BLM locked parcels as well not just the gated parcel?

When asked why he didn’t place the gate three-quarters of a mile farther down the road, which would have preserved public access to the BLM land, he said that would allow public access to his entire ranch and let people into steep country where they would get their vehicles stuck and then ask him to help pull them out."

 

[Forkyfinder]

When he references "allowing access to HIS entire ranch" he must be referring to BLM and BLM locked parcels as well not just the gated parcel?

I cant assume its the tiny 370 acres in the bottom.

Sounds like the gate unlocks for 7k for a mule deer or 3k for a cow elk just fine.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I cant assume its the tiny 370 acres in the bottom.

Sounds like the gate unlocks for 7k for a mule deer or 3k for a cow elk just fine.

When you're worried about the public accessing "your" BLM that's a bad look.

 

[R.K.]

I interpreted the quoted statement as people getting stuck on BLM and looking for help from whoever they come into contact with nearby of which the landowner and hired help would be likely.

My initial reaction to this was pretty negative as it points towards an outfitter trying to make life hard for public to access the public ground near/on where he takes paying clients. That said, I can understand why a landowner wouldn't want to deal with additional traffic through his land, impacts to roads, trespassing and why they would take steps to reduce the negative exposure to the general public if the option is available. The "we dont have fences for signs" and "the cattle dont go on BLM" quotes do hit my BS sensors a bit though.

If there's no fences for signs, then how do the cattle stay off of BLM? Unless he's using GPS collars on the cattle, which I doubt.

I'm pretty sure we could personally come up with folks to pay for T-posts to put up the No Trespassing signs where he says there's an issue. I'll even drive up tomorrow to set the posts for free.

This just doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

[bigsky2]

If there's no fences for signs, then how do the cattle stay off of BLM? Unless he's using GPS collars on the cattle, which I doubt.

I'm pretty sure we could personally come up with folks to pay for T-posts to put up the No Trespassing signs where he says there's an issue. I'll even drive up tomorrow to set the posts for free.

This just doesn't pass the sniff test.

Not defending him, but I know of places where it’s rough enough that fences aren’t required to keep cows out. I would think certain stretches of it would need fences though.

 

[Forkyfinder]

If there's no fences for signs, then how do the cattle stay off of BLM?

I assumed he leased it for cattle grazing?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Not defending him, but I know of places where it’s rough enough that fences aren’t required to keep cows out. I would think certain stretches of it would need fences though.

Yeah, I wasn't even skeptical of the claim as a generalization. Like generally the ground gets rougher on BLM and the cattle prefer the less rough ground. But the way it's framed in the article at least is laughable. Like the BLM is automatically too rough for cattle along 6 miles of property boundary so they dont dare to cross the line but dumb hunters who hide the fact that they have onX? They're worse than cows at knowing where the unmarked property boundaries are.

Solberg also said his land is not fenced where it borders BLM, a distance of about six miles. He said livestock doesn’t cross into the BLM from his land because the federal property is too steep. Without a fence to post no trespassing signs, Solberg said his hunting outfitter, Rod Paschke, would be inconvenienced.

“They walk onto private land that’s not fenced,” Solberg said of public hunters. “So unless these guys carry an onX (an online GPS program that designates land ownership) — which none of them admit to — I spend too much time dealing with them.”

I dont doubt that he deals with trespassing issues. It's just the framing of the issue that seems disingenuous.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Not defending him, but I know of places where it’s rough enough that fences aren’t required to keep cows out. I would think certain stretches of it would need fences though.

I laugh at the idea people even have a need to trespass. You could easily walk a mile ish around the 600 total acres of private amongst the 30k of public there. Its not like the elk would stand in that tiny sliver of private and know they are safe.

Itd be a lot more palletable/understandable if the story aligned with the facts. They dont want the public hunting there and locking up the road preserves that. Simply stating that would have garnered a little more credibility.

 

[homers]

It would be a shame if hundreds of respectful, non private land trespassers, showed up and hunted on his “BLM” land this fall.

 

[Gerald Martin]

It’s the hunters responsibility to know where they are, not a landowner’s responsibility to post his property in order to inform hunters of the line. Most do to make it easier to discourage illegal trespass.

Posted or unposted, private property in MT requires permission to access. Written permission is required for posted property, verbal permission required for unposted.

With that in mind the logic that it’s too difficult to post a private line because the ground is too rugged for fences doesn’t make sense. Nor does the inconvenience of interaction with public hunters justify blocking access. If the road is deemed legally public either through being enrolled as a public road or prescriptive easement it should be open to public access.

I’m a private landowner who is often inconvenienced by hunters who interfere with my day by hunting in the same spots I want to on public land. I want to gate the access road to ensure that only those with the key can access it.

 

[MTGomer]

I've used this road. I'll write PLWA an email.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I've used this road. I'll write PLWA an email.

Thank you!

Hope theres more.

 

[antlerradar]

I don't know the particulars of this road so I am not going to comment on it. About 25 years ago we had a similar cased near me. All the attention the road closure brought to the place was far more damaging to the hunting and the landowner/outfitter than having the road open. I can not imagine that this in going to have a different outcome. Twenty five years ago people read about it in the paper, now the internet is pipping it into every house 24/7. This could end up a lose/lose situation. but I could be wrong as I a have never been closer than looking at a map of seven blackfoot.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I don't know the particulars of this road so I am not going to comment on it. About 25 years ago we had a similar cased near me. All the attention the road closure brought to the place was far more damaging to the hunting and the landowner/outfitter than having the road open. I can not imagine that this in going to have a different outcome. Twenty five years ago people read about it in the paper, now the internet is pipping it into every house 24/7. This could end up a lose/lose situation. but I could be wrong as I a have never been closer than looking at a map of seven blackfoot.

That’s what I was thinking. Could definitely see the press and quotes like the one below causing more “inconveniences” for big shooter.

Paschke’s website calls Solberg’s ranch “one of the best” for elk hunting in the area.
“It has been hunted lightly in recent years and holds not only high volumes of elk, but a great age class and outstanding quality as well,” the website said.

 

[utah400elk]

I wish the BLM/FS would simply put a gate at their boundary. He has an absolute right to his private property. However, it does not nessessarily guaranteer him acess to drive into BLM. A few well placed gates could help end this nonsense. Just a thought. There are too many people who really feel that the public land behind their private belongs to them. Plus, I think him having acess to a couple hundred yards of his private road only to hit another locked fence would be pretty funny.

 

[DP_PublicLands]

I wish the BLM/FS would simply put a gate at their boundary. He has an absolute right to his private property. However, it does not nessessarily guaranteer him acess to drive into BLM. A few well placed gates could help end this nonsense. Just a thought. There are too many people who really feel that the public land behind their private belongs to them. Plus, I think him having acess to a couple hundred yards of his private road only to hit another locked fence would be pretty funny.

This right here is 100% right - talk about have your cake and eat it to. Happens everywhere. No more exclusive access to public roads.

 

[Eric Albus]

Just because the gate is not locked for nine months doesn’t mean that I am welcome to drive through it.
One first must understand the mindset of these remote land owners they rarely to never see anybody for nine months out of the year. They go to town only when necessary.

So speaking with him grants you access?

Looking to fill a b tag.

No it doesn’t, and I don’t expect it to.

 

[cgasner1]

Just because the gate is not locked for nine months doesn’t mean that I am welcome to drive through it.
One first must understand the mindset of these remote land owners they rarely to never see anybody for nine months out of the year. They go to town only when necessary.

No it doesn’t, and I don’t expect it to.

So shouldn’t the gate be left open till the weather turns? I mean if the issue is people getting stuck why lock it up only during hunting season?