Nick87
Well-known member
Not sure about the creek pretty sure no.
Privatization kills both Resident and Nonresident DIY hunting opportunity
- Thread starter abqbw
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bulldawg10
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Because elk have value, and landowners are incentizived to do projects to support them. Elk have value worth tolerating them, of course there are more elk today.
Sure there would be elk still without landowner incentives but less elk. Their ranges in NM would be more limited and less tags would exist.
So many people are so ate up with a landowner making a little money off an elk and so mislead by these organizations making you think opportunities have been stolen, that you can't see that the reality is more opportunities actually exist. Especially in a place like NM with very limited water resources for them.
Many many landowners are doing this just because the program for elk creates valu enough that it's worth doing!
And that's the point.
There are two options here.
One, they are in the primary zone and that land is in the highly managed area and has some resources making it score high enough to achieve EPLUS SCR status.....which is very rare on 20 acres.
Or two they are in secondary zone. And can buy OTC Ranch only tags. No unitwide exists in secondary zone.
Most small ranches like this have been eliminated from then SCR list. Go buy 20 acres and see if you get a tag.....most likely you won't. The EPLUS just eliminated 700+ ranches a couple years ago because they didn't benefit enough.
Now go buy 20 acres - half treed, half forage and drop a $50k water well on it that provides year round water. Maybe you have a chance at a tag.
That water however, just improved the habitat, to get a property eligible.
When a lot of landowners are doing these things it's great for the herds across the broader landscape. Expanding ranges and numbers.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
I understand the arguments, but am not so sure. It would be interesting to see hard stats. Is Arizona a much worse place than they would be otherwise because they have no landowner vouchers? Because opportunity at their elk is far more democratized?
Another way I view it. As someone who values the ability of the working man to hunt as a highest virtue, I wonder if even we grant that NM has markedly more elk than it would otherwise due to privatization, is it true the beneficiaries of that wildlife trust are benefitting commensurate to that increase? @abqbw 's statistics are very convincing that that is in fact not the case at all.
Not directed at you @hank4elk . I know you are a good landowner and neighbor. Montana's problem is not lack of privatization. It's something else entirely.
I’m a working man who loves to hunt- as a NR to all western states, UW landowner tags are one of the best ways for me to actually make this happen.
Montana would be served well to go the NM route on this one, both their state financial situation and their private/public land game problems would be improved.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
When I look at the amount and proportion of New Mexican's elk being converted to tags going to nonresidents in NM vs the amount in other places, your claim seems quite dubious to me.
bulldawg10
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Agreed.
And as a working man, in NM....you most likely could actually afford to buy land there still and do projects like EPLUS recognizes for the elk program.
It incentivization guys like us to do thing to come into the State and program, which helps expand and improve elk habitat and in exchange, we could hunt those elk.
Nick87
Well-known member
Do you buy one for NM every year? Or I guess I should say on a regular basis?
bulldawg10
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First off, the authorization for the tag was in the hands of a New Mexican land owner most likely. A huge percentage of the landowner list is comprised of New Mexico addresses.
Then they sold it....a New Mexico resident could buy it just the same as a non-resident. It's equal opportunity at that point.
But in the event it is sold to a non-resident, the G&F is getting 10x the revenue for it too. Which goes back into wildlife.
No- but certainly won’t be afraid to in the future. Not trolling by saying this, but NM wasn’t really high on my list before the OP started this thread.
Aside from a bit longer drive (not really that much more to where it’s an issue) their system sounds pretty sweet.
rogerthat
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Lots of people work as much as you and can’t afford to hunt out of state. Just because you can afford them doesn’t mean everyone else can. Is that what you want hunting to be? Who has the biggest piggy bank gets to hunt? I don’t.
bulldawg10
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For elk, it should be on your list!....because the program works so well, it's something of the best elk hunting you will ever have the opportunity to do!
Populations are booming, primary zones are expanding. I'd find a way every year, and New Mexico provides several options for those that want to!
Nick87
Well-known member
Check em out, not exactly a working man's tag imo. If the few extra hours drive is keeping you from new Mexico I don't think you'll like the price of the land owner voucher much.
The shark was jumped on that one a long time ago (especially for NRs).
bulldawg10
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Lose $7m in revenue to G&F from non-resident tag sales and watch resident costs increase. Is that what you want?
If your elk tags increase by $100 to residents, how many residents now can't afford to do it any more?
Non-residents tag sales keep your cost as residents down.
Yeah, I have an idea. Not cheap, but nothing is these days.
Nick87
Well-known member
What's your ballpark number your thinking?
Have you ever even hunted NM?Whatever it takes to go hunting- gonna run out of money before you run out of time
I am not naive to the cost, it’s not hard to find.
