OR excess elk

[Irrelevant]

Oregon elk vex landowners and game managers - High Country News

The herds are wary of recreationalists, unwelcome at the refuge and eating into profits.

www.hcn.org

Not being in their shoes, and not ever seeing their land, I shouldn't comment...BUT.... if you don't want to deal with elk on your lands, either don't ranch or move to elsewhere. I mean you could say the same for grasshoppers, "Why am I footing the bill for feeding these critters?" at a certain point there has to be an acknowledgement that open lands contain public wildlife, if you don't like that, don't buy the land.

 

[gouch]

When ever I see these stories I have two questions. 1. How many people do you allow to hunt on your property? 2. How many cows do you have grazing on public land?

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

Build a better fence if it bothers you. It's open range. I'm not very sympathetic to this sentiment I guess.

And how we've arrived at blaming elk for medusa head is just baffling to me. That was livestock importation.

 

[rtraverdavis]

Many of the ideas being proposed (and in this case implemented) by ODFW (and landowners) to get elk off private land are bad news for management of our wildlife. It’s an ugly trend. There was the bill last year that would allow jack lighting elk on certain pieces of private, and even unlimited take in some cases. This bloodletting that will occur next August is hard to swallow, and will only be a temporary fix to the “problem.” I don’t know what the answer is, but if the Greens are losing $150k a year to elk, maybe they could put that money toward better fences, like others have mentioned above. Perhaps ODFW could allocate some resources to help with that, in exchange for allowing the public to hunt the property during regular seasons.

 

[MO Betta]

When ever I see these stories I have two questions. 1. How many people do you allow to hunt on your property? 2. How many cows do you have grazing on public land?

I'd be curious to hear the answers to this.

 

[Irrelevant]

I'd also like to know how much money they're making on their landowner tags.

 

[Trial153]

Unfortunately these issues all to often end up as another form of landowner welfare

 

[belshawelk]

So here's my take. As a landowner and public land hunter. I have a small chunk of land in E. Oregon I use solely for hunting. There are some wild horses ( whole different total shit show) and I do have some cows from neighbors that graze. Growing up in cattle farming house I completely understand the cattle ranchers issues. But, I have no issues with no matter how may elk are on my land. I don't have hundreds or thousands but there are quite few. Some winter all year. You cant build fences high enough or strong enough to be cost effective. Elk and wild horses just tear them down, so I tear out sections of mine for elk and deer to travel.

First let me say I have never, ever sold a LOP tag. And I only get cow tags, I have never even put in for a bull tag, even though I can get one with my LOP and I have some really really good bulls. For me I just want cows to fill the freezer. Done the whole horn things and have enough mounts ( except that elusive 190+" mule deer that i have trail cams of). I do have a couple buddies that do come hunt, and other landowners surrounding do the same. My issue is with the shier hatred and BS I hear from people on this forum and elsewhere about the value and what we as landowners do for wildlife. I have written several times on this forum about it. There needs to be a middle ground. I hunt public, put in for tags or point every year in Oregon. Pay the same as everyone else. But I have also spent thousands on my property for wildlife. Mine is a really good spot in winter cause they can access the river, grass areas and lots of tress for cover. I don't ask for anything, not sure i have the answers, just like to see a balance of both sides and the value to everyone. They are everyone's critters.

 

[rtraverdavis]

So here's my take. As a landowner and public land hunter. I have a small chunk of land in E. Oregon I use solely for hunting. There are some wild horses ( whole different total shit show) and I do have some cows from neighbors that graze. Growing up in cattle farming house I completely understand the cattle ranchers issues. But, I have no issues with no matter how may elk are on my land. I don't have hundreds or thousands but there are quite few. Some winter all year. You cant build fences high enough or strong enough to be cost effective. Elk and wild horses just tear them down, so I tear out sections of mine for elk and deer to travel.

First let me say I have never, ever sold a LOP tag. And I only get cow tags, I have never even put in for a bull tag, even though I can get one with my LOP and I have some really really good bulls. For me I just want cows to fill the freezer. Done the whole horn things and have enough mounts ( except that elusive 190+" mule deer that i have trail cams of). I do have a couple buddies that do come hunt, and other landowners surrounding do the same. My issue is with the shier hatred and BS I hear from people on this forum and elsewhere about the value and what we as landowners do for wildlife. I have written several times on this forum about it. There needs to be a middle ground. I hunt public, put in for tags or point every year in Oregon. Pay the same as everyone else. But I have also spent thousands on my property for wildlife. Mine is a really good spot in winter cause they can access the river, grass areas and lots of tress for cover. I don't ask for anything, not sure i have the answers, just like to see a balance of both sides and the value to everyone. They are everyone's critters.

I have a feeling your approach to elk as a landowner is an exception to the rule. Maybe I’m wrong. As someone with firsthand knowledge of damage and cost, what alternative possibilities do you see for moving elk off private ground that doesn’t resort to drastically reducing herds?

 

[belshawelk]

I have a feeling your approach to elk as a landowner is an exception to the rule. Maybe I’m wrong. As someone with firsthand knowledge of damage and cost, what alternative possibilities do you see for moving elk off private ground that doesn’t resort to drastically reducing herds?

Well they are going to drastically reduce herds now in some areas. They just opened up general over the counter cow tags. No draw required. All you need is permission to hunt private lands. Here is where landowners need to put up or shut up. IF elk are a problem on your land allow public to come in hunt one. I have no issue with charging a moderate trespass fee. You say why trespass fee, because many people are assholes and don't respect other people property. I have been burned a couple times. Allowed a buddies buddy who then brought every relative they know and left crap on my property including cigarette butts and beer cans. If the elk became to many I would consider consider allowing some to hunt but they would need to pay a small guide fee so I can ensure my property isn't damaged. But then I am not a legal guide and causes other issues. I guess it would be an escort fee. There is no real answer, elk and deer go on private for safety, its just the way it is. My concern now is I will have trespassers "saying" they have permission or claim a neighbor gave them permission ( which they wont) and "accidentally" crossover on boundaries. Hope they don't go on my one neighbor, hes got a bunch of land and patrols it on horse and has pulled guns on anyone who trespasses. Oh boy see, we have accomplished nothing...................

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

How about a block management type plan to allow some hunting or just allow hunters access or some trespass fees?

It would suck to have your property destroyed so why not allow access? Is a few beer cans worse than the animals? Seems like some hunting would also move animals off the properties too instead of letting them pile up on the private safe havens.

 

[rtraverdavis]

How about a block management type plan to allow some hunting or just allow hunters access or some trespass fees?

It would suck to have your property destroyed so why not allow access? Is a few beer cans worse than the animals? Seems like some hunting would also move animals off the properties too instead of letting them pile up on the private safe havens.

This is what I’ve been wondering. With mandatory daily registration for anyone hunting, to keep the public accountable and hopefully mitigate some of the assholish behavior that belshawelk described.

 

[dgc1963]

Well they are going to drastically reduce herds now in some areas. They just opened up general over the counter cow tags. No draw required. All you need is permission to hunt private lands. Here is where landowners need to put up or shut up. IF elk are a problem on your land allow public to come in hunt one. I have no issue with charging a moderate trespass fee. You say why trespass fee, because many people are assholes and don't respect other people property. I have been burned a couple times. Allowed a buddies buddy who then brought every relative they know and left crap on my property including cigarette butts and beer cans. If the elk became to many I would consider consider allowing some to hunt but they would need to pay a small guide fee so I can ensure my property isn't damaged. But then I am not a legal guide and causes other issues. I guess it would be an escort fee. There is no real answer, elk and deer go on private for safety, its just the way it is. My concern now is I will have trespassers "saying" they have permission or claim a neighbor gave them permission ( which they wont) and "accidentally" crossover on boundaries. Hope they don't go on my one neighbor, hes got a bunch of land and patrols it on horse and has pulled guns on anyone who trespasses. Oh boy see, we have accomplished nothing...................

As a land owner you should collect a fee to help with expences on the property and help with damages
maybe have it in wrighting for the ones you let on
I have leses at home and have had to chase or escort off due to trespassing

 

[belshawelk]

How about a block management type plan to allow some hunting or just allow hunters access or some trespass fees?

It would suck to have your property destroyed so why not allow access? Is a few beer cans worse than the animals? Seems like some hunting would also move animals off the properties too instead of letting them pile up on the private safe havens.

I dont have enough to destroy my property as ii only have a couple heards of about 50-75 in each. Down the road about 20-30 miles they have thousands that end up in their fields. Whole different story for them In bad winters elk will do whatever they have to to get into hay sheds.

 

[OverlordBear]

I have a feeling your approach to elk as a landowner is an exception to the rule. Maybe I’m wrong. As someone with firsthand knowledge of damage and cost, what alternative possibilities do you see for moving elk off private ground that doesn’t resort to drastically reducing herds?

I think the alternative is that for every private land tag given there needs to be an equal amount of public access given. Or if you submit for depredation damage you should be mandated into a public access agreement. Farmers and Land owners act entitled to this money. Yet they will simultaneously post no trespassing and not let people hunt elk in their property. Pressured private property doesn’t allow elk to stay on your property year round this it encourages migration which should minimize damage to the private property holders.

 

[belshawelk]

I think the alternative is that for every private land tag given there needs to be an equal amount of public access given. Or if you submit for depredation damage you should be mandated into a public access agreement. Farmers and Land owners act entitled to this money. Yet they will simultaneously post no trespassing and not let people hunt elk in their property. Pressured private property doesn’t allow elk to stay on your property year round this it encourages migration which should minimize damage to the private property holders.

Then you wouldn't see any landowner build things like water tanks, keep invasive plant species out, and forested areas that help animals survive throughout the year. The only compensation we get are LOP tags. No tax relief or other monies. If you are talking just the landowners with depredation issues that is another issue, but someone like me who does not, it is not beneficial for me to allow public access. Who pays for damages to fences when they get cut? Fire damage? Garbage, ATV riding off trails, heck I even had some morons in a 4x4 truck who were trespassing drive off the road and crash down a 40' embankment into the creek on my property. Almost died.

 

[44hunter45]

Unless it's written by Hal Herring, I don't think much of HCN. I'm surprised they didn't say Oregon needs more wolves to fix this problem.

 

[ScottP]

Oregon elk vex landowners and game managers - High Country News

The herds are wary of recreationalists, unwelcome at the refuge and eating into profits.

www.hcn.org

Not being in their shoes, and not ever seeing their land, I shouldn't comment...BUT.... if you don't want to deal with elk on your lands, either don't ranch or move to elsewhere. I mean you could say the same for grasshoppers, "Why am I footing the bill for feeding these critters?" at a certain point there has to be an acknowledgement that open lands contain public wildlife, if you don't like that, don't buy the land.

This article missed the mark in many ways, I wrote the author a two page letter pointing out the shortcomings/omissions. I won't elaborate greatly here, but the in the geographic area this article is centered, much of the private land is leased for pay-to-hunt operations and emphasis is on quality hunting - not moving the elk around during hunting seasons. Those same landowners then complain about elk damage in the winter when the numbers get big. This is foothill grasslands (no croplands), primarily winter range, but some elk have now become year-round residents. Too much conflict of interest...

those that have commented on hunter access are right, you aren't going to knock on a door and go shoot a cow elk out there. ODFW has been working with these affected landowners for years, but they are not amenable to opening up to public, or thus far it has not materialized. ODFW has an Access and Habitat program where private landowners receive compensation for opening up to public hunting (they can implement certain access restrictions as well) but nothing is on the books in this hotbed. Not sure how rates compare to Block Management, but in OR the enrolled lands are few and far between, unfortunately.

ODFW is legislatively required to respond to elk damage, and with the extremely loose definition of damage in state statue, the average public land hunter will be on the losing end of this. The agency was spending so many resources on elk damage it was eating their lunch. Hence the general damage tags across the state. Not sure if we can shoot our way out of this problem... or if this will make things worse.

 

[ImBillT]

Oregon elk vex landowners and game managers - High Country News

The herds are wary of recreationalists, unwelcome at the refuge and eating into profits.

www.hcn.org

Not being in their shoes, and not ever seeing their land, I shouldn't comment...BUT.... if you don't want to deal with elk on your lands, either don't ranch or move to elsewhere. I mean you could say the same for grasshoppers, "Why am I footing the bill for feeding these critters?" at a certain point there has to be an acknowledgement that open lands contain public wildlife, if you don't like that, don't buy the land.

You’re allowed to spray all the grasshoppers you want. You’re not allowed to shoot elk at will. Not a very good comparison.

I do wonder if their property would be equally hammered if they opened it up to everyone with a tag.

 

[Salmonchaser]

I’ve never understood the grief the LOP tags cause. According to ODFW only about 1/2 the available acreage is enrolled, the larger the property the fewer tags you get per acre; 5,000 acres gets five tags; 10,000 acres gets 6 tags; and it takes 40,000 acres to get 10 tags.
If you get an LOP Tag you can’t hunt any other property, public or private.
The over riding reason ranchers don’t let people hunt anymore is the grief they take from Portland hunters over the lop program. If I can’t hunt it why should I let you?