Non-political Make ICE hate make sense to me. Can it be civil?

[Nuts]

I jumped in a rabbit hole trying to make sense of why the ICE hate. Please do not make this political finger pointing. I genuinely cant make sense of it. Here is what I found

• 100's of websites set up to track and harass ICE
• Very little if any opportunities to support law enforcement without being a target yourself
• All news reporting is biased
• Obama deported more then Trump
• There is a portion of illegal immigrants that have deportation orders
• There is a portion of illegal immigrants that have committed crimes outside of being illegally here
• There is a portion of illegal immigrants who do vote and a portion who do obtain benefits only available to citizens. Also resources are or were used to bring them here and take care of them with tax payer money
  • 1 side will say that some of the above is not possible
  • 1 side will say it absolutely is happening
  • There is a portion of anti-ice folks who lack common decency and are "victims" when held accountable
• There is a portion of ICE and LEO who are done with nonsense and react accordingly

So my initial take.

• Folks are here illegally and should not be. They should be deported. They made the decision to come. Being allowed to break the law for 5,10 or 20 years doesn't grant you anything.
• The anti-ice folks are the loudest so some think that everyone agrees with them
• The everyday American has mixed feelings or supports ICE
  • I 100% agree with removal
  • I feel bad for the families who are established here. However they are here illegally. If they have been here a while they made no steps to become legal
  • Wages have 100% been affected by illegal immigrants here. I have experienced this personally and in my opinion is why a lot of the trades are hurting for labor. Americans wont do the trades job for the same amount your grocery store pays. Wages are suppressed by 25 years of illegal immigrants doing the work. So yes Americans wont do it but they would start if the rates was worth it. I know drywall. In my area I hire company A (Legal) They charge me $75 an hour. They hire company B (legal) who charges A $30-$40 an hour. They hire company C (illegal) who charges B $25-$35 an hour. By the time it gets to the guy doing the work its at $15-$25. And often there is then a Company D. Now imagine if company A or B had the workforce. They could pay $30-$40 fairly easy and someone could live off that somewhat. Which they do not because they cant find men willing to do the work as 25 years ago they got run out.

So what is the opposition to ICE about? I used to flash my lights at a cop ahead. I was told to knock it off. You don't know who you are saving from getting pulled over and what else they might be up to. (Still did it) Here we have people giving criminals a heads up the LE is headed there way. And its not for speeding. Why is that ok?

 

[NoWiser]

ICE isn’t just targeting illegal immigrants. They’re targeting people with a certain skin color.

 

[Wild Bill]

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

In before the

 

[Dsnow9]

It’s political, orange man bad….

All good points though @Nuts

 

[cgasner1]

The entire thing is political. If you’re really interested look back at all the previous administrations and the numbers. Not only did Obama deport more but they had more shootings and people die in custody. That’s just the numbers. It’s hard to get a true reading on anything at all these days to look at this objectively and not at a party line an it’s quite sad. It becomes pretty hard for me to try and read anything when it starts with orange man is the devil but I feel the same way way when it says he is the second coming. I’d rather just read factual numbers on things.

 

[Stocker]

I’d say the absolute best thing everyone can do is turn off all the BS news channels and any other form of news and enjoy your life. What’s written, broadcast, or talked about is all BS, both sides trying to spin stuff their way to keep people stirred up.

I used to worry and get pissed off about politics, when I realized it’s all posturing BS and blowhards on both sides I quit. Not to mention a lot of elected officials are some of the dumbest people out there. I mean borderline R word dumb.


Let them live in their insane fantasy world.

 

[The_Jim]

The donors(not constituents) of both sides wanted illegal immigration for all these years or it would have stopped. One side wants cheap labor & the other side wants congressional seats. Those same people also own the major news networks so my tinfoil hat covered head is convinced the outrage is manufactured to keep the status quo. Add the 24hr news cycle and everyone checking facebook every 45 seconds on their phone and we all lose our damn minds.

• Fox News (Fox Corp): BlackRock owns approximately 15% of Fox Corp, according to SEC filings. This stake gives BlackRock significant influence, though not majority control.
• Comcast (NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, Sky): BlackRock holds a 13% stake in Comcast, which owns major news networks like MSNBC and CNBC.
• Disney (ABC News, FiveThirtyEight): BlackRock owns 12% of Disney, which operates ABC News and other news-related platforms.
• CBS (CBS News, Sixty Minutes): BlackRock owns 16% of CBS, a major player in national news broadcasting.
• CNN: BlackRock holds a 12% stake in CNN’s parent company, Warner Bros. Discovery.
• Gannett (USA Today, 250+ newspapers): BlackRock owns between 10% and 14% of Gannett, the publisher of USA Today and numerous local newspapers.

 

[TX Trophy Hunter]

It’s a reflection of poor leadership. We have not had a respectful president since Obama. When Trump won the first time he rubbed it in the face of the democratic voters. When Biden won he said that the adults were back in charge. The president’s are dividing us into two teams where the most important thing is that the other side fails. It’s like the Ford Chevy debate. Both companies put out garbage and just want your money, but people will pick a side and defend it like a cult.

 

[Nick87]

ICE isn’t just targeting illegal immigrants. They’re targeting people with a certain skin color.

I have no idea whether thats true or not since I have nothing to back that up either way. But what skin color is it?

 

[Nick87]

The donors(not constituents) of both sides wanted illegal immigration for all these years or it would have stopped. One side wants cheap labor & the other side wants congressional seats. Those same people also own the major news networks so my tinfoil hat covered head is convinced the outrage is manufactured to keep the status quo. Add the 24hr news cycle and everyone checking facebook every 45 seconds on their phone and we all lose our damn minds.

• Fox News (Fox Corp): BlackRock owns approximately 15% of Fox Corp, according to SEC filings. This stake gives BlackRock significant influence, though not majority control.
• Comcast (NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, Sky): BlackRock holds a 13% stake in Comcast, which owns major news networks like MSNBC and CNBC.
• Disney (ABC News, FiveThirtyEight): BlackRock owns 12% of Disney, which operates ABC News and other news-related platforms.
• CBS (CBS News, Sixty Minutes): BlackRock owns 16% of CBS, a major player in national news broadcasting.
• CNN: BlackRock holds a 12% stake in CNN’s parent company, Warner Bros. Discovery.
• Gannett (USA Today, 250+ newspapers): BlackRock owns between 10% and 14% of Gannett, the publisher of USA Today and numerous local newspapers.

I agree.

 

[Nick87]

I’d say the absolute best thing everyone can do is turn off all the BS news channels and any other form of news and enjoy your life. What’s written, broadcast, or talked about is all BS, both sides trying to spin stuff their way to keep people stirred up.

I used to worry and get pissed off about politics, when I realized it’s all posturing BS and blowhards on both sides I quit. Not to mention a lot of elected officials are some of the dumbest people out there. I mean borderline R word dumb.


Let them live in their insane fantasy world.

Was just talking about this with somebody. Nobody on either side of reporting wants the truth. Whoever gets a headline out the fastest sells the best reaction. By the time the truth comes out nobody gives a shit they're already made up they're mind and the truth gets swept under the rug. Most of the time you cant even find anyone actually reporting on it when the facts finally come out. That doesn't sell.

 

[SAJ-99]

So what is the opposition to ICE about?

As courts have ruled numerous times, they are doing illegal actions. They are violating the rights of US citizens and non citizens as they try to implement these polices and actions.

I know it is complicated and hard to keep up, but all the other points are far more complicated than you want to make them. For example, Many of these people are under Temporary Protected Status (so not illegal) and then have the Administration revoke that status so they can array and deport them.

For example, In legal filings the administration has argued that the 4th amendment doesn’t apply to noncitizen immigrants, even though hundreds of years of legal decisions have said it applies to everyone. You have to remember why the Constitution was written and how it was framed. If you don’t remember, go read it. What is being attempted is redefining how the constitution is interpreted. That could have profound impacts on all us going forward.

 

[Nuts]

As courts have ruled numerous times, they are doing illegal actions. They are violating the rights of US citizens and non citizens as they try to implement these polices and actions.

I know it is complicated and hard to keep up, but all the other points are far more complicated than you want to make them. For example, Many of these people are under Temporary Protected Status (so not illegal) and then have the Administration revoke that status so they can array and deport them.

For example, In legal filings the administration has argued that the 4th amendment doesn’t apply to noncitizen immigrants, even though hundreds of years of legal decisions have said it applies to everyone. You have to remember why the Constitution was written and how it was framed. If you don’t remember, go read it. What is being attempted is redefining how the constitution is interpreted. That could have profound impacts on all us going forward.

Temporary protected status-Could these rejections be related to what was reported as pupping milling immigrants and reusing info like SS #s or what ever they did with that? No clue if it is. That IMO should be a sacred system that the American People can trust. If there is fraud people should be charged. And they probably should be rejected. The immigrant being an innocent bystanders but here on a fraud none the less and the process would need started over and done properly. Maybe totally unrelated just where my mind went.

Stuff is crazy. Some where some how it would be awesome to find unbiased info where 100% facts are presented with no conclusions drawn. Let the people decide for themselves. But that isn't possible. Facts are always presented by someone with a certain lenses on. And that is frustrating

 

[longbow51]

I just wish I had set up a Learing Center before the lock.

 

[cgasner1]

The thing I really find interesting on this is the amount of time some of you spend just piss pounding influencers for what they are doing to the resources. Then will stand up and defend someone who shouldn’t even be in this country. Isn’t paying taxes and could be taking advantage of all sort of free programs we as tax payers are paying for. I’m not saying that’s the case with all of them but free housing day care phones all sorts of stuff we pay for.

 

[Forkyfinder]

.

Billings to pay family $550K for 2014 officer-involved shooting

Richard Ramirez was shot and killed in April 2014 by Billings Police Officer Grant Morrison following a traffic stop.

www.kpax.com

Must have missed it - but I don't recall any self proclaimed union leaders or refinery heros sticking up for this guy. In fact most people in/around Billings probably have forgot. He was unarmed and shot for twitching his hand around on a seat. Absolutely terrible.

Enforcing the law is ugly. I don't often like the optics or the realities of it. I am grateful that someone's doing it. And I don't envy their job. I sure as hell won't be setting out to make it harder.

If police are phucking with you - shut your mouth and go to court. It's that simple.

 

[SAJ-99]

No clue if it is. That IMO should be a sacred system that the American People can trust.

Then why speculate and post it?

That has been researched in depth. Mostly these immigrants pay into the system even though they will not receive benefits. But yes, there are problems for if the immigrant does something that gets attached to the SS#. Again, complicated. If you are hoping to find a place that just gives 100% facts then you will be disappointed. The main thing to remember is rarely is something all good or all bad. To further add to your consternation, why are there not more significant penalties for employers that hire these people illegal using the SS #?

 

[Elkmagnet]

Funny enough.
Im for deportation of illegal immigrants.
But I happen to believe in the constitution and the bill of rights.
So why do I dislike what is going on?
In short I believe every human should be treated humanly in accordance to our constitution.
People are arguing to give up their own constitutional rights because it's not currently happening to them. People are stupid.

Longer but not complete version.

The administration is.
Not allowing a judge to decide if someone is a citizen. (Thats unconstitutional.)

The administration is.
Going after anyone who publicly speaks out against it including the media. (Thats unconstitutional.)

The administration is.
Not obeying the orders of numerous judges on the subject.
(Thats unconstitutional.)

The administration is.
Wanting to deport US citizens based on skin colorand or political beliefs(Thats unconstitutional.)

The administration is.
Saying that I cant have a holstered gun at a protest despite there being a long standing president that I can. (Thats unconstitutional.)

The administration is.
Saying anyone who is recording Ice or observing is a domestic terrorist(Thats unconstitutional.)

The administration is.
Saying that Ice agents have full and complete immunity. (Thats unconstitutional.)

The administration is.
Obviously using a states political leaning to decide how aggressively it is going to enforceimmigration. Thats political retribution(Thats unconstitutional.)

The administration has shown it will do whatever it takes to achieve its goals.
No law or document will stand in its way that's dangerous and lord help us the pendulum keeps swinging further each way. Trump has written the playback on how to go around the constitution of the United States and things will be different from now on.

 

[Nuts]

Then why speculate and post it?

That has been researched in depth. Mostly these immigrants pay into the system even though they will not receive benefits. But yes, there are problems for if the immigrant does something that gets attached to the SS#. Again, complicated. If you are hoping to find a place that just gives 100% facts then you will be disappointed. The main thing to remember is rarely is something all good or all bad. To further add to your consternation, why are there not more significant penalties for employers that hire these people illegal using the SS #?

As someone who hired someone with a fake SS prior to there being verifications possible the 1099 I sent him was rejected and I believe I was ultimately responsible for the taxes as it was added to my income. That was a very long time ago. So the penalty I suppose is you are then responsible for the taxes. A W2 employee gets verified. But alot in our area are 1099's. Not sure how much that gets verified. And I have also seen them provide LLC's. Which complicates things.