D
Deleted member 28227
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Yep. If you want to apply for a Montana tag, better buy a plane ticket.
New points theory
- Thread starter Duck-Slayer
- Start date
RobertD
Well-known member
I appreciate these ideas of making applications a more "serious" endeavor, i.e.
-Front the money
-No points if you draw leftover, OTC etc.
-Choose between deer/elk/antelope within a given state
- Can't apply for a point and draw leftover or second choice (would've burned me in CO last year but I wound up returning the tag anyway)
-Speaking of which, no refunds
I like these type ideas, where we shift applying for tags back in favor of those who intend to hunt, and hunt now.
People can still build points if they want to, but we can disincentivize the "shotgun approach" with some of these changes, and discourage the greed that is becoming so pervasive in our hunting community
-Front the money
-No points if you draw leftover, OTC etc.
-Choose between deer/elk/antelope within a given state
- Can't apply for a point and draw leftover or second choice (would've burned me in CO last year but I wound up returning the tag anyway)
-Speaking of which, no refunds
I like these type ideas, where we shift applying for tags back in favor of those who intend to hunt, and hunt now.
People can still build points if they want to, but we can disincentivize the "shotgun approach" with some of these changes, and discourage the greed that is becoming so pervasive in our hunting community
RobertD
Well-known member
The only thing about this one that bugs me is it would probably encourage the already present disparity between who can afford to even try for a sheep tag and who can't
Would be worried only wealthier/less tied to a job NRs would be able to jump through that hoop
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Rich people hate standing in lines. Make the app be in Feb, one person in the building at a time.
RobertD
Well-known member
Ha. I think I'm thinking more of the guy who can't take off work from his plumbing job to fly from Alabama to Montana and back because he only gets so many days off.
In general I think we have to be careful that when we look for a tool to cut back on point creep, we don't use income/employment level as that tool where we can help it.
I am also a hypocrite, because I generally support making it all more expensive to cool demand. Playing devil's advocate I guess.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Yeah I'm saying a lot of this firmly tongue in cheek.
The yellowstone bison thing was an interesting case study though. In the NY times yada yada, so they got like 4x more than all the applications put in for all the bison hunts in the US combined.
Not sure you do with that information, but it definitely points to the idea that a lot of applicants are bandwagon folks, that are only mildly committed to the endeavor. If you make it so people have to go figure out how to do X hunt instead of having it dropped in their lap you probably can shrink the pool considerably.
RobertD
Well-known member
Agree with the whole comment but wanted to highlight this. I think the key to undoing a lot of the mess lies in that very idea.
The states at this point aren't going to do anything to undo it obviously but at least we as hunters can use it to our advantage.
I think when I start applying more than just here and there, I will subscribe to all the services not to pick which tag to try for but to learn which ones to avoid.
I can't imagine how frustrating it is for someone who finds the tag they know they can draw and then sees a blog post or something on GoHunt advertising it. Hasn't happened to me... yet
seeth07
Well-known member
I actually think it drastically removes point creep because you have to pick, either gain a point or not. So you are going to want to be sure you draw a tag but that won't likely happen unless you ensure you have a few over what it's currently going for.
My take:
1. Provide a 3 yr window from now to use your preference points. If not used, they will be converted to bonus points for future drawings. At the end of 3 yrs, no one will have preference points and all remaining points will become bonus points.
2. Any purchased tag (male only) will result in zeroing you bonus points for that species.
This can be done without fully blowing up the system, while at the same time, providing those high point individuals with a remaining advantage, albeit a lesser one, in the higher demand draws. Also, this opens up some opportunity for the lower point holders to have an opportunity at some of the "higher quality" units.
Zeroing bonus points when drawing any male tag will also slow down the building of points in general.
1. Provide a 3 yr window from now to use your preference points. If not used, they will be converted to bonus points for future drawings. At the end of 3 yrs, no one will have preference points and all remaining points will become bonus points.
2. Any purchased tag (male only) will result in zeroing you bonus points for that species.
This can be done without fully blowing up the system, while at the same time, providing those high point individuals with a remaining advantage, albeit a lesser one, in the higher demand draws. Also, this opens up some opportunity for the lower point holders to have an opportunity at some of the "higher quality" units.
Zeroing bonus points when drawing any male tag will also slow down the building of points in general.
GrantK
Well-known member
I'm in the same boat, I personally want draws to have a huge buy-in because I have time and money now, looking back at 16-year-old me dropping all my money from odd jobs and part-time summer work to get into the sheep draw (still haven't drawn BTW) I have sympathy for those who just want to go hunt and don't have spare time or money, finding something to cut down on participation in the draw that doesn't involve more money or more time is tough, I actually think the in-person app is a decent idea, or have an earn a PP system where the only way you get points is documented work on habitat projects? wouldn't have to be out west habitat projects, donate 20 days of work at your local public lands to get a PP?
RobertD
Well-known member
Love the habitat work idea, truly I do. Tie sheep pref points to sheep habitat work, that'd be interesting.
Zim
Well-known member
Gotta laugh sitting hear reading the various schemes of greenhorns for the best way to throw us decades invested point holders under the bus. 
To get us out of your way to your tags. As if it’s not already enough every state in the country outside of Iowa & New Hampshire has been cheapening our points to half their original value over the last 20 years. But given the fiasco Maine got away with peddling all the bonus points money can buy, I don’t see any class action lawsuit coming. It won’t stop until it gets to the 1923 Weimar Republic hyperinflation level. What a joke.
To get us out of your way to your tags. As if it’s not already enough every state in the country outside of Iowa & New Hampshire has been cheapening our points to half their original value over the last 20 years. But given the fiasco Maine got away with peddling all the bonus points money can buy, I don’t see any class action lawsuit coming. It won’t stop until it gets to the 1923 Weimar Republic hyperinflation level. What a joke.Attachments
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D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Meh you'll die before me, not really worried about your points. More just the 50,000 folks in my generation at the same point level.
RobertD
Well-known member
Yes,
They cost 15 billion dollars.
RobertD
Well-known member
I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was in the presence of a Decades Invested Point Holder.Gotta laugh sitting hear reading the various schemes of greenhorns for the best way to throw us decades invested point holders under the bus.
Cheesehead
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2017
- Messages
- 1,046
It’s why I’m a fan of random odds. If multiple decades of striving fail to add wisdom, humor or sex appeal, why should they improve odds of tapping a limited resource.
Duck-Slayer
Well-known member
I think a 5 year wait before you can apply or gain points for that species would also be beneficial.
Matt
Matt
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Totally random with a post draw waiting period equally to the quality of the hunt.
IMO make the system fair-er by (punishing) the people who got to hunt instead of those who were to young to apply .
IMO make the system fair-er by (punishing) the people who got to hunt instead of those who were to young to apply .
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Pyramid schemes usually fail. I got into them with this on my mind.Gotta laugh sitting hear reading the various schemes of greenhorns for the best way to throw us decades invested point holders under the bus.
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