Gut Shot
Well-known member
Yes, I would have but the truck I wanted wasn't in stock anywhere. Couple that with the fact that sticker is over $4000 less for the new model than last year's model and it makes more sense to buy the 2024.
My first new vehicle
- Thread starter Gut Shot
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Then quit giving one...
SFC B
Well-known member
First off, congratulations on the new-truck-to-be!! I have a 2020 F150 (Jack) and have been really happy with it so far (32K). I got a great deal right before COVID from a dealer in Ohio. Got exactly what I wanted except for a compromise on color. My requirements were extended cab, long bed, and rear locker. At the time the F150 was the only one that fit the bill. That being said, with the new Tundra having a locker available my choice would have been different.
I was giving Ford the business/benefit of the doubt for not taking the bailout. With the current UAW shenanigans I will NEVER spend another dime on a vehicle they have their hands on. Being from the Midwest, and being old enough to remember what the UAW strikes of the 70s did to the entire car industry and most of the Midwest, I have no stomach for this crap. Many cities and towns in the Midwest were left literally crippled and gutted as a result. Anyone that thinks UAW workers don't make a "living wage" for doing unskilled labor has NEVER lived are these folks. Current average UAW wage is $28/hour not including benefits for jobs which are generally in lower to middle cost of living areas. Current demands include a THIRTY SIX % raise couple with a 32 hour work week, increased vacation time and a return to the fully defined pension/benefits plan that almost bankrupted the big 3 last time which would make the total hourly labor cost near $150 totally 80 BILLION a year in increased costs.....think about that for unskilled labor. Do you ever here the Union making waves about the wages of the SKILLED bodymen, mechanics and painters at dealerships? Nope. Why? Because they colluded with the big 3 for a "hands off" on those folks in exchange for filling their own pockets decades ago. How do I know? Because my father was a bodyman at a dealership for 48 years. He was an incredibly skilled man( I would say near an artist) at what he did but NEVER made what the UAW folks around us did. He also only got paid for work he actually did (it is not uncommon to see UAW workers whose portion of the line is caught and are on mandatory overtime, per the contract, simply go to the break room or leave the plant for HOURS at a time while being paid) and was tasked with fixing shoddy UAW work under warranty. Want to know a portion of the crap I have seen UAW workers leave inside vehicles? Wrenches, food, beer cans, watches, change.....the list goes on.
I have been both a union member and worked in labor relations (dealing with 7 different unions) at different points in my working life. I have seen how the sausage is made and know what is reasonable and what is extortion. All you have to do is listen to the UAW president speak and you can feel the corruption. TRADE unions are great in that they are responsible for training, verifying and supply skilled trades with the assurance that their folks are qualified. Labor unions like the UAW have devolved from necessary 70 years ago into outfits with no interests beyond greed and protection of the worst of their membership. My home state has several "Japanese" plants and guess what folks get good pay, good benefits and turn out BETTER vehicles under the only the premise that there are no unions and substandard performance isn't tolerated. Simple.
The only thing the UAW cares about is the UAW. For those that disagree, I understand but I would ask you to ponder on this ^ statement. Do you think, in ANY WAY, that the UAW or this strike is good for you or the country in general?
I was giving Ford the business/benefit of the doubt for not taking the bailout. With the current UAW shenanigans I will NEVER spend another dime on a vehicle they have their hands on. Being from the Midwest, and being old enough to remember what the UAW strikes of the 70s did to the entire car industry and most of the Midwest, I have no stomach for this crap. Many cities and towns in the Midwest were left literally crippled and gutted as a result. Anyone that thinks UAW workers don't make a "living wage" for doing unskilled labor has NEVER lived are these folks. Current average UAW wage is $28/hour not including benefits for jobs which are generally in lower to middle cost of living areas. Current demands include a THIRTY SIX % raise couple with a 32 hour work week, increased vacation time and a return to the fully defined pension/benefits plan that almost bankrupted the big 3 last time which would make the total hourly labor cost near $150 totally 80 BILLION a year in increased costs.....think about that for unskilled labor. Do you ever here the Union making waves about the wages of the SKILLED bodymen, mechanics and painters at dealerships? Nope. Why? Because they colluded with the big 3 for a "hands off" on those folks in exchange for filling their own pockets decades ago. How do I know? Because my father was a bodyman at a dealership for 48 years. He was an incredibly skilled man( I would say near an artist) at what he did but NEVER made what the UAW folks around us did. He also only got paid for work he actually did (it is not uncommon to see UAW workers whose portion of the line is caught and are on mandatory overtime, per the contract, simply go to the break room or leave the plant for HOURS at a time while being paid) and was tasked with fixing shoddy UAW work under warranty. Want to know a portion of the crap I have seen UAW workers leave inside vehicles? Wrenches, food, beer cans, watches, change.....the list goes on.
I have been both a union member and worked in labor relations (dealing with 7 different unions) at different points in my working life. I have seen how the sausage is made and know what is reasonable and what is extortion. All you have to do is listen to the UAW president speak and you can feel the corruption. TRADE unions are great in that they are responsible for training, verifying and supply skilled trades with the assurance that their folks are qualified. Labor unions like the UAW have devolved from necessary 70 years ago into outfits with no interests beyond greed and protection of the worst of their membership. My home state has several "Japanese" plants and guess what folks get good pay, good benefits and turn out BETTER vehicles under the only the premise that there are no unions and substandard performance isn't tolerated. Simple.
The only thing the UAW cares about is the UAW. For those that disagree, I understand but I would ask you to ponder on this ^ statement. Do you think, in ANY WAY, that the UAW or this strike is good for you or the country in general?
Nick87
Well-known member
Any union that's worth a shit doesn't supply substandard workforce either that's how you maintain a strong union.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yes, to answer your last question. Did you forget about the concessions UAW gave to save the big 3?
Typical bullchit, times are tough, workers are asked to share the chit times. Pay cuts, pension cuts, higher cost of healthcare, etc.
Record profits and the workers have to strike to piece of that.
What a joke.
A+ though on the rest of your thrashing and bad mouthing of American labor. Glad your high moral code allows you to decide what American workers "deserve" in wages, benefits, and their standard of living you deem them worthy of.
Unbelievable.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Absolutely, those shitty union workers are so horrible, they're making the company record profits and allowing their CEO's to make 25+ million a year salaries.
Makes sense that the workers suck, unless you actually think about it.
SFC B
Well-known member
Actually it should be the labor MARKET that determines what workers deserve. I am NOT bashing American labor....apparently you washed over that part of my comments about the non UAW plants in IN turning out great products, but that doesn't support the party line. I am bashing the UAW. Pretty simple. They "have to strike"...now THAT is hilarious. BTW, if look at when concessions were ever, they were in rough economic times (like the last big recession) and were done in order to save layoffs being necessary. But you are right, they should make their products even MORE expensive and unaffordable for folks dealing with horrible inflation. If you think expecting to get a 36% raise while working 20% less (and 20% less than everyone else in the country BTW) is reasonable.....I think that pretty much speaks for itself. As you said......Unbelieveable.
SFC B
Well-known member
Those are Trade model unions (think IBEW, Plumber and pipefitters, carpenters, iron workers etc).....the UAW model is simply as many unskilled workers contributing to the coffers as possible.
BuzzH
Well-known member
After years of stagnant wages AND concessions...combined with inflation, you "feel" a 36% raise is not reasonable?Actually it should be the labor MARKET that determines what workers deserve. I am NOT bashing American labor....apparently you washed over that part of my comments about the non UAW plants in IN turning out great products, but that doesn't support the party line. I am bashing the UAW. Pretty simple. They "have to strike"...now THAT is hilarious. BTW, if look at when concessions were ever, they were in rough economic times (like the last big recession) and were done in order to save layoffs being necessary. But you are right, they should make their products even MORE expensive and unaffordable for folks dealing with horrible inflation. If you think expecting to get a 36% raise while working 20% less (and 20% less than everyone else in the country BTW) is reasonable.....I think that pretty much speaks for itself. As you said......Unbelieveable.
That "feeling" is just you needing to take a dump, to clear your mind.
If you think $28/hour is a reasonable wage to support a family, you're living in Fantasyland. Hand to mouth wages, just the way it is.
Makes a ton of sense to not pay your workers enough to afford the vehicles they're producing.
I mean the Average worker would only have to save save every take home penny they made for 2.5-3 years to afford those new trucks they're producing.
Grossly over paid, they can walk to work and live in a tent.
Unbelievable...
Oh, and btw when exactly are the employees going to see the sharing of the good times and record profits?
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I worked my UAW job at Caterpillar for over 28 years. I went a good 12 years without a raise of even 1 cent because I was overpaid according to the company and not important enough for the union to fight for. I built and repaired engines and built hundreds of dozers before working in repair where I could tear down a completely built bulldozer and put it back together from scratch. I think I was pretty well skilled. My wage when I had to leave was $25.25! The international didn't give a damn about us because we didn't have near the number of members. My daughter works for Rivian without a union and makes more than I did. Do I agree with the union wanting to get back some of what they gave up to help the company stay afloat? Yep. Do I also think things have got out of hand price wise? Yep. Strikes serve a purpose but also hurt in many ways. I hope that this gets settled soon.
Sorry for the derail of the thread. I would love to have a new truck but I don't have the money!
Sorry for the derail of the thread. I would love to have a new truck but I don't have the money!
BuzzH
Well-known member
I wonder if the highly skilled CEO could build one of those dozers you built from scratch?
It's offensive to me when some clown determines that guys like you are just "unskilled labor" and should be happy making the company billions while you're making $25/hour.
I won't apologize for calling BS on that nonsense and supporting American Workers.
SFC B
Well-known member
If you are equating what Dave did to what someone on an auto assembly line does you are waaaaay off base. Also, notice that the almighty UAW totally sold out his skilled labor while spending all of its resources on the others simply because that's where their $$$$$$ came from. BTW, the raise (just in pay, not in benefits) would put the average hourly at $47.6 ...or $80k a year for a 32 hour work week. Seriously, this is a wagon to hitch to? Don't equate my not supporting the UAW with not supporting American workers, they are NOT one and the same. Thanks for making attempted personal attacks and ridiculously overstated claims though.....you represent the UAW-think very well.
Hilljackoutlaw
Well-known member
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- Jan 15, 2019
- Messages
- 6,108
Congrats on the new ride! Hope it goes smoothly and you get it sooner than later.
Nick87
Well-known member
Yes.
GlockZ
Well-known member
I've been looking around the truck market, don't see a reason to buy a used truck, because of the prices. Even with a sizable down payment and good credit, looking at $750-$1000 a month payment on new. Thinking maybe getting a mid-sized SUV instead. Until then, I'll keep driving my 2012 Ram 1500 with 230k miles on it.
BuzzH
Well-known member
If the labor on the assembly line is so unskilled, maybe ask the next time you buy a vehicle they send it to you in a couple thousand pieces. You can show us how skilled you are, bolt it together yourself, and save money on all that unskilled labor.
Oh, and no, I don't find 80k a year to be an excessive salary, working for a company making billions in profit, excessive...if only obviously.
Hilljackoutlaw
Well-known member
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Buzz you sure are one crazy lunatic. Not cause of your opinions but the maniacal psychopath way you express them. I'd like you to start a HT live where you explode on threads live. It would be hysterical! It'd go viral I'm sure of it.
I'll be your first subscriber.
I'll be your first subscriber.
Hilljackoutlaw
Well-known member
- Joined
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You can call it zero to Mach 3 in .01 seconds
elkduds
Well-known member
This is from 1975, screenplay by Thomas McGuane. Some things keep getting samer and samer.
grizzly_
Well-known member
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If you want to support UAW, buy a UAW vehicle not a foreign-made vehicle.
PS. Toyota moved all Tacoma production to Mexico.
Toyota to move all Tacoma production to Mexico in 2021 - Hagerty Media
The move is part of a massive manufacturing restructure.
www.hagerty.com
Toyota to move Tacoma truck production to Mexico from U.S.
Toyota Motor Corp <7203.T> said on Friday it will move production of its mid-size Tacoma pick-up truck from the United States to Mexico as it adjusts production around North America.
