Mule deer opportunity?

[Randy11]

I brought up B&C score because I couldn’t think of a better quantifiable metric to use (was looking into something totally unrelated, but when I saw the actual numbers they surprised me a bit). What else is out there, somewhat readily available, covers a large area, and is standardized? I 100% agree it’s not the gold standard and far from the only standard of what makes a big buck or good buck in the eye of the beholder, much less a quality hunt.

Mature buck ratio on winter surveys is what I would be most interested in.

Just my opinion, bit I don't think as many "trophy" bucks would have been killed in the Bitterroot the last 25 years had it stayed general.

I personally wouldn't put any weight on that small of a sample size using that quirky of an algorithm (B&C).

 

[WanderWoman]

Mature buck ratio on winter surveys is what I would be most interested in.

Just my opinion, bit I don't think as many "trophy" bucks would have been killed in the Bitterroot the last 25 years had it stayed general.

I personally wouldn't put any weight on that small of a sample size using that quirky of an algorithm (B&C).

If mature was standardized (what is mature; can it be consistently determined by various observers?), the data was readily available (database anyone can search), didn’t have to worry about big swings in temporal variation, and covered a large area (state/multiple states or counties vs. trend area), I’d agree.

I think your opinion is spot on. Not just because of season structure but habitat as well.

And yes, after seeing how few entries there actually are, it doesn’t lend for any sort of robust analysis. Still interesting/surprising though at face value what it shows (or doesn’t show).

 

[Forkyfinder]

The Great Basin Decline: A Mule Deer Crisis in the Making - Mule Deer Foundation

The Great Basin has been locked in a battle with chronic drought for years. Dry winters have crushed the quality of forage that deer depend on

muledeer.org

 

[Forkyfinder]

How in the h=== is our proposal going to benefit commercial interests associated with elk? Rifle elk season is nearly unchanged, Archery is shifted forward one week.

RIfle elk season is unchanged art?

Must have been some r4.0 i didnt read. Making the overall season longer. Moving elk season to be later after another rifle season is substantially changing it. Have you hunted with a rifle in western Mt?

I know if i owned some land around - say - white sulphur, and outfitted, i'd be giddy. The elk getting pushed to my place the end of the first week of october from mule deer hunters (i recall - you guys think that there wont be a lot of hunting pressure on an opening day for mule deer in the west , but i guess ive got different expectations). If that wasnt enough - archery opens a week earlier. The guy in mind would save on running the helicopter around to do the same thing - push elk to his land - i guess. Dont tell me about idaho, wyoming, or anywhere elses seasons until you look at a map. The geography and especially land ownership matter.

Heres whats crazy to me - you and gerald talk about anything le being "more restrictive" - these proposals hoped to impact every weapon and nearly every species. Nearly every montanan i know agrees mule deer need help. Many i know that rifle and archery hunt hate your proposal but dont want to be belittled by your little group here. The goal should have been to help mule deer specifically then. I can gaurantee you that more people would support modifying/limiting mule deer hunting than changing everything everywhere.

 

[bigsky2]

RIfle elk season is unchanged art?

Must have been some r4.0 i didnt read. Making the overall season longer. Moving elk season to be later after another rifle season is substantially changing it. Have you hunted with a rifle in western Mt?

I know if i owned some land around - say - white sulphur, and outfitted, i'd be giddy. The elk getting pushed to my place the end of the first week of october from mule deer hunters (i recall - you guys think that there wont be a lot of hunting pressure on an opening day for mule deer in the west , but i guess ive got different expectations). If that wasnt enough - archery opens a week earlier. The guy in mind would save on running the helicopter around to do the same thing - push elk to his land - i guess. Dont tell me about idaho, wyoming, or anywhere elses seasons until you look at a map. The geography and especially land ownership matter.

Heres whats crazy to me - you and gerald talk about anything le being "more restrictive" - these proposals hoped to impact every weapon and nearly every species. Nearly every montanan i know agrees mule deer need help. Many i know that rifle and archery hunt hate your proposal but dont want to be belittled by your little group here. The goal should have been to help mule deer specifically then. I can gaurantee you that more people would support modifying/limiting mule deer hunting than changing everything everywhere.

Yes, other than having hard season dates that don't change from year to year, rifle elk season would basically be unchanged (Oct 25-Nov 30).

 

[NDGuy]

And I don't see the demographic of "average" resident changing any time soon. mtmuley

 

[Forkyfinder]

Yes, other than having hard season dates that don't change from year to year, rifle elk season would basically be unchanged (Oct 25-Nov 30).

Disconnecting elk and mule deer isnt nearly as hard as you guys made it.

For example, pick your mule deer units (as many or as few as you want to limit) - you cant shoot an elk in that unit.

 

[bigsky2]

Disconnecting elk and mule deer isnt nearly as hard as you guys made it.

For example, pick your mule deer units (as many or as few as you want to limit) - you cant shoot an elk in that unit.

Sounds like an enforcement nightmare for wardens.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Sounds like an enforcement nightmare for wardens.

Aren't you a believer the dept can enforce 129 or 131 people hunting their own land?

 

[DFS]

@Forkyfinder You need to go touch grass as the kids would say. Go take your rifle for a walk.

 

[cgasner1]

I’m under the impression that the ideas for game management in Montana are kinda like a fart. Everyone seems to think their own smells a little better.

 

[Irrelevant]

I feel like everyone on HT agrees that late nov rut hunts should LE only. yet somehow everyone else in MT disagrees.

 

[golfer]

Yes, other than having hard season dates that don't change from year to year, rifle elk season would basically be unchanged (Oct 25-Nov 30).

Leave the season structures as they are. Get rid of the general deer tag and make it whitetail and mule deer specific. Make people choose when buying. And then convince commission to only allow mule deer hunting with rifles for 2-3 weeks.

This would get rid of the rut slaughter everyone wants to see go. And is focused on what is struggling… mule deer. Not elk, not whitetail, not archery, not antelope.

 

[cgasner1]

I feel like everyone on HT agrees that late nov rut hunts should LE only. yet somehow everyone else in MT disagrees.

Go look at deer thread. It has 3-4 bucks killed in the last week from the same ol guys. Kinda odd they didn’t need to get it done on a Black Friday special

 

[Forkyfinder]

Leave the season structures as they are. Get rid of the general deer tag and make it whitetail and mule deer specific. Make people choose when buying. And then convince commission to only allow mule deer hunting with rifles for 2-3 weeks.

This would get rid of the rut slaughter everyone wants to see go. And is focused on what is struggling… mule deer. Not elk, not whitetail, not archery, not antelope.

To help mule deer it all needs changed.

For $ome reason.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Nothings going to change in MT much at all until there is a decision to separate the general deer and elk season start/end dates and manage deer and elk as completely different animals. Montana has so much wasted potential for amazing hunting.

 

[antlerradar]

Go look at deer thread. It has 3-4 bucks killed in the last week from the same ol guys. Kinda odd they didn’t need to get it done on a Black Friday special

Knowing where one of those deer was killed, If the hunter had waited a week he likely would have been SOL because in all likely hood the buck would have been with all the does on private land.