JohnDeereGreen
Member
Looks like FWP will extend the Wolf season to April 1 in WMU 250, according to an MT Bully Pulpit update on Facebook.
Mt wolf season extension
- Thread starter JohnDeereGreen
- Start date
Yup. Just got back from the commission meeting. RMEF, MOGA, MWF, Ravalli County Fish and Wildlife and the Bitteroot Elk Working groups stood in support. No other hunting groups testified.
Wolf Watcher Coalition and Buffalo Field Campaign testified against. Some valid points about hunting wolves during pregnancy came up, and the perception of hunters taking said animals, as well as the current elk study pointing a finger (after only one year of data) that lions were taking most of the calves.
Commission also increased the number lion tags from 20 to 30, with a new sub-quota of 5 female lions. If you put in for this draw and did not get a tag, you might be getting a call from FWP.
To me the most disturbing point was that Chairman Bob Ream voted against extending the season because it might upset the breeding season for wolves-the vote was 3-2 with Ream and Moody voting not to extend season.
If you have any comment on this vote please do so here: [email protected]
If you have any comment on this vote please do so here: [email protected]
Let me know how it looks when a hunter holds up a clearly pregnant wolf, teats and all, and posts it on the net. They both had valid points, and were it anywhere other than the West Fork, I would have had troubles supporting it.
Bob also made the motion to increase the lion harvest in the Root by 50%.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
The USF&WS routinely kill females ready to pup in the spring. I witnessed this in the Big Hole 2 springs ago. It's not pretty, but was the result of over protectionsim. This isn't about whats right, or wrong, or ethical. This is about a control effort that will be the least evasive that we can do for now. We need predators killed in that district. Adding 10 lion tags will get a few more dead, and that will help also.
What units are they talking about upping the lion tags in?
I really hope it's not just the southern end of the root.
Then let's be honest about it and call it what it is: a management action. We're simply using agents other than the state to perform it. It's the same thing as the 10J proposal.
Eve's story gives a better feel of what happened today: http://missoulian.com/news/local/fw...cle_12b20672-42e8-11e1-9285-0019bb2963f4.html
I'd have to look at the motion, but I think it was just 250.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Control effort = management action, no?
sweetnectar
New member
Seems how hunters aren't filling the quotas, what are your thoughts on rule changes that would give hunters a better advantage.
Something like: Make electronic calls legal to use, no fee for a wolf tag, changing season dates, use of night vision scopes and shooting wolves at night legal, and even trapping if that is what it takes, or other ideas?
Part of me believes that trying to control wolf populations is similar to trying to control coyote populations. I suppose some ideas of how to control wolf populations can be gleaned from places that have tried the issue for years like AK or parts of Canada???
Something like: Make electronic calls legal to use, no fee for a wolf tag, changing season dates, use of night vision scopes and shooting wolves at night legal, and even trapping if that is what it takes, or other ideas?
Part of me believes that trying to control wolf populations is similar to trying to control coyote populations. I suppose some ideas of how to control wolf populations can be gleaned from places that have tried the issue for years like AK or parts of Canada???
Personally, I think trapping will be instituted within the next couple of years. That's always been an option under the management plan. Trappers and others have held back on that because of the perceptions held by a lot of folks in regards to trapping, and the repeated attempts to eliminate trapping from public lands. We tried to get a mandatory trappers ed bill through last session, but it was killed for political reasons unrelated to trapping.
As far as electronic callers, night vision, etc, you're looking at legislative changes, and I think there would be a lot of resistance to some of this because if we drastically change our management plan, then we could trigger a review under the ESA, and we could lose state management.
We're going to see some changes next year in the season structure I believe. I know that we'll have more WMU's, and other commission led efforts as the data from 2011 is collected. Right now, we're hunting wolves from September through March.
There will also be a push by the livestock community to increase the amount of license dollars going to Wildlife Services for livestock depredation work, while disguising it as "wildlife management."
MT's wolves are a lot different than Canada or AK's wolves in that they don't have the large expanses of wild country to work like they do up north. Eventually, wolves come in to conflict and they are removed. Alaska's management of wolves is highly controversial because it's not necessarily effective. I know several former AK G&F employees who are solid Bio's who think that whacking wolves wily-nily only causes more problems. In fact, Val Geis states that you have to remove 75% of the population over repeated years to have any effect on ungulate populations. That's ridiculously expensive, especially when that money could be put towards habitat management which will provide more fiscally sound management, and keep ungulate populations where they need to be.
On coyotes, the more pressure you put on them, the more they go into estrus, and you end up with multiple litters per year and per pack.
All in all, predator control is a tactical application of management. As an overriding policy, it sucks all the money out of agencies and has no long term effect.
The state is still learning how to manage wolves. Season structure and management options will continue to be refined. It will take some time to get it down, but I think almost all options are on the table so long as the comport to the Management Plan.
sweetnectar
New member
How about aireal gunning to wrap up the quotas? May lead to bad pr but so does trapping.
Arial Gunning in wild country is proving to be difficult. Idaho had to cancel their aerial stuff because it was ineffective. IIRC, the cost per wolf for Wildlife Services is somewhere between $6K and $10. Similar to coyote. I'm not sure what Idaho spent on their program, but it might be higher.
I'm all for filling the quota. I just don't think that we'll get there with aerial gunning. It works in livestock management kind of, but a lot of wolves are taken through other means (night vision, etc) that are not available to hunters. I'm not necessarily opposed to it in a management scenario, just wonder how effective it can be.
I'm all for filling the quota. I just don't think that we'll get there with aerial gunning. It works in livestock management kind of, but a lot of wolves are taken through other means (night vision, etc) that are not available to hunters. I'm not necessarily opposed to it in a management scenario, just wonder how effective it can be.
That's the problem-disney land science -emotion ruling Montana management decisions-
Idaho is less than 5 miles away from this area and they are baiting,snaring,electronic calling,using old horses for bait and still can't get it done. I don't think you or Mr. Ream understand the real problem in the upper root. It's a matter of trying to save the herd at this point.
I know you and mwf don't support this action just like you didn't support the maximum quota for wolves!
Do you really think the public can tell the difference between a picture of a dead milk dripping wolf killed in Montana from the one killed in Idaho?
We hunt deer,elk,moose during the breeding season from August to January and the wolf is hunting them from January thru December?
Ben you gave some great speeches yesterday for all wildlife and I commend you for it but you have a problem when it comes to the wolf control.
mdunc8
Well-known member
Great strategy. Let's "manage" a new, highly controversial, species in an area where they've never been managed before by getting them as close to the minimum allowable population as soon as possible.
Big difference between breeding and birthing seasons
Big difference between breeding and birthing seasons
Rat Fink
Member
How many of you guys shoot cow elk with rifles? How many participated in the late season hunts we had a few years ago? I do and I participated in the extended season hunt but did not get an elk that year. Explain to me the difference between shooting a bred cow elk in late november vs shooting a bred bitch wolf in march? Just kill the damn wolves and keep it legal.
I'm sure alot more will be learned in the coming years as far as limits needed to keep the population at a stable number.I'm positive the limits they made this year will be filled be the new pups.I realize they have to take baby steps with this issue.Trapping will definitely help with quotas along with reducing NR tag fees for wolves.the more people with a tag in hand will make for more dead wolves,and quotas being filled.
If you can kill yotes year round then what makes the wolf different??If you have a quota to fill it should run till its achieved
If you can kill yotes year round then what makes the wolf different??If you have a quota to fill it should run till its achieved
Bullshit.
http://www.montanawildlife.com/projectsissues/10JWolfHunt.htm
http://ravallirepublic.com/news/local/article_fdbd81f2-6afb-11e0-917f-001cc4c002e0.html
http://www.newwest.net/topic/articl..._delisting_bill_is_the_better_choice/C41/L41/
MWF has stood behind the Elk Working Group and Ravalli County to get this pushed forward. MWF was the one who took it to the Delegation and asked them to lean on USFWS to get the 10J approved. MWF was the group who organized the other 11 groups in the Ravalli Republic story to apply pressure to FWP to move forward with the 10J proposal, and MWF was the strongest voice in support of this action yesterday. MWF was the only group who saw a clear path to delisting and took some serious hits by folks who were trying to undermine this path for political reasons.
It was MWF on the press teleconference with Tester when he cast the vote on the CR to delist wolves, and it has been MWF that led the way to get us to where we can hunt wolves. Just because we don't want to go out and kill pups in dens, poison or bait wolves doesn't mean we're not in this fight. You guys in the Root have every chance to go whack a wolf. Maybe it's the Rooters who aren't serious about wolf management, since you can't fill the quota?
I don't care about Idaho, I care about MT and MT hunters, and how we're perceived. Having MT hunters holding up a visibly pregnant wolf will not help our cause one bit.
The Maximum quota is not a function of management. It's a social function that served no purpose. If we can't fill 220, what makes you think we could have filled a higher quota? We also have a 5 year monitoring period where the feds are watching, and where we can easily be relisted if we're not careful and methodical in how we approach this situation.
If we push too far in one direction, we end up where we were in 2009. If we don't manage smartly, then we lose all we've gained.
