MT Breaks' Bighorns in the crosshairs?

[Big Fin]

Not sure how to respond to this one. I had heard the rumors, but wanted to make sure the facts were that domestic sheep were actually being brought in by the landowner/outfitter in question. This article confirms such is being done.

I wonder if the sheep industry knows what a shit storm is about to unfold here? Do they understand what a small minority they are, compared to hunters and wildlife advocates in Montana?

Yes, a private landowner has the right to do anything they want on private ground. This is very reminiscent of the Bill Hoppe event down in Gardiner, MT, and outfitter landowner who was pissed and brought domestic sheep to his place to spite hunters and the state agencies he was pissed at.

MT WSF has tried like hell to work with the wool growers, even getting a lot of heat for being too accommodating. Now, the wool growers discounts that domestic sheep are a known disease vector for wild sheep. Not sure how you have any sort of discussion or working compromise with an industry in such denial.

Hunters concerned domestic sheep may spread disease to prized bighorn herd

A Montana ranching family’s decision to run a herd of goats and sheep in a region that supports the largest bighorn herd in the state, and was home to a

billingsgazette.com

Again, not sure what the answer is when it comes to private property rights. I would opine that some of these folks flexing their private property rights in a vindictive way are raising the temps on what already can be heated debates on these issues.

 

[Mica Man]

Crummy deal for sure, but if you don't have a conscience...

 

[Trial153]

That gentleman espouses a special kind of stupid.

 

[Nameless Range]

What the heck. A direction of thought I have without being too specific:

There are all sorts of things I cannot do on my private property because they adversely affect things outside of my private property - whether that be the public or other private property owners. There’s no magic here, just thresholds.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of work can be undone at the whim of someone who is spiteful or ignorant or both. Should a line be drawn in the sand prohibiting certain practices on private land within certain administrative boundaries full stop, or should folks continue to try and be collaborative and work with the industry?

I don’t know the answer but I know what I would do if I were king for a day.

 

[Schaaf]

Maybe the Buffalo people aren’t so bad after all.

 

[Firedude]

I wonder at what point the responsibility will be to those that knowingly do stuff like this? If you start a fire on your property and it burns down the forest, you can be liable. If you put chemicals out that kill wildlife, you're liable. If you don't vaccinate your dog and it infects anything, you're liable. I'm for ranching but at some point you have to take into account what your actions do to public property. If it's proven that their sheep infect those bighorns, who's going to hold them liable for allowing a transmittable disease to get out?

 

[Desk Pop]

What a completely selfish moron. Say goodbye to the best bighorn sheep herd in the State. This population was used to transplant to other places as well. What a turd. And to think, he is an outfitter. I am embarrassed to call myself a hunter if this a-hole does as well.

I believe in private property rights. But I also believe if you are that effing dumb you have no business owning private property.

 

[Trial153]

WSF and or the people of Montana should file suit. Collectively throw money at this in such a way that makes the individual retainer fees larger then his stupidity.

 

[Straight Arrow]

This is another example of unethical flexing the muscle of private property rights to "make a living" but blatantly giving the finger to wildlife by ignoring the negative externality of one's commercial endeavor which presents risks to wildlife. It demonstrates an unconscionable lack of integrity, such of which seems counter to the longstanding agricultural support of wildlife of the twentieth century in wide collaboration among ranchers, hunters, and FWP in bringing wildlife populations "Back From the Brink" ... bighorn sheep and elk in the Breaks, in particular.

I don't know if that is a multi-generational Montana ranching family of the Bear Paw - Missouri Breaks area, but if so, you can bet ol' Great Grandpa Brown is turning in his grave.

 

[Desk Pop]

I wonder at what point the responsibility will be to those that knowingly do stuff like this? If you start a fire on your property and it burns down the forest, you can be liable. If you put chemicals out that kill wildlife, you're liable. If you don't vaccinate your dog and it infects anything, you're liable. I'm for ranching but at some point you have to take into account what your actions do to public property. If it's proven that their sheep infect those bighorns, who's going to hold them liable for allowing a transmittable disease to get out?

No one will. The ones making the laws are the ones who own the giant ranches that want to be able to do whatever they want.

 

[Desk Pop]

What a legacy he will leave....he will go down in history as the idiot who ruined the hunt with the most coveted tags in the US....when they decide to kill off the bighorns like they did with the Tendoy herd, I will be there to add a ram next to my Missouri Breaks ewe mount!

 

[rmyoung1]

Is there a way for interested parties (BLM, MT FWP, WSF, etc.) to work together to erect fencing pronto? I know the cost would be astronomical, most likely. And I realize that fencing would be an imperfect solution since it would impede natural migratory patterns of all kinds of wildlife. But... man... trying anything seems like a better alternative than this herd getting infected. Does anyone more knowledgeable than I have any take on what can be done? Certainly something, right? Anything's better than hand-wringing and hoping the domestics and wild sheep stay magically separated. This is just sickening.

 

[MTGomer]

‘Private property rights’ is just something to hide behind.
It’s beyond time to challenge that notion. Like somebody said above, when what you do on your property has effects beyond your property, you don’t have an unfettered right to do it.

Just think of the house you own. Even if you live on a postage stamp suburban lot like I do. There are many things that would harm nobody that you are not allowed to do. And many more that you need to get the governments permission for.
Owning domestic sheep next to bighorns or grazing them on public land needs to stop.

 

[EYJONAS!]

I am still unable to wrap my head around this guy's thought process. The only thing I can come up with is he's an attention seeker and a huge look at me person.....

One of my favorite sayings in life though.... "they ain't all first round draft picks" clearly this guy didn't even make it off the bench.

 

[huntin24/7]

I saw there's a bunch of people commenting on Facebook under the sheep hunting group about this article. A lot are going off about it being a private property issue and that's their right. I would hope anyone with that opinion,in this instance, would be totally o.k. with the APR buying up land and running bison on their property.

 

[HighWildFree]

Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.

I've dealt with a variety of landowners large and small while wearing several different hats. There are some good ones out there that are good stewards of the land, but the majority of my experience has been that ranchers see wildlife as pests and given the chance they would exterminate them all. Ron Mills story in this issue of Bugle talks about a landowner advertising for men with machine guns to kill all the elk and protection from the Feds. But they figure if they can't get rid of them they are going to make some money off of them. I can say that that same group feels that ranchers are God's gift to Montana and that they can do no wrong and have perpetuated this mythos that "making a living" is the end all goal and that anything even slightly hindering that is down right Communism. That last quote in the story is all I need to hear to know what kind of ranchers these folks are.

This is the same mentality behind Galt pushing the shoulder season while making nearly a quarter million each year leasing hunting rights. It's never enough.

Montana's demographic is shifting and I think ranchers will someday lose their clout. But not before they burn the state's natural resources down trying to hold on to it.

 

[Trial153]

Heretics. The great American rancher is an iconic figure. If you do anything to dispel that image your a pinko commie basard.

 

[Fire_9]

Maybe the Buffalo people aren’t so bad after all.

Ha! That’s the first thought I had too

 

[1976]

If possible, since the breaks are one of if not the premier bighorn sheep regions in North America not only for hunting but also for using as seed stock for other areas of the US you would think the State of MT Animal health department would be able to check the health of the domestic sheep and when they are found positive for the strain of pneumonia that effect wild sheep they would be quarantined by the state for the health of BHS and also the economic fall out that could occur. Maybe just a pipe dream but if it was BHS spreading disease to domestic sheep we wouldn't be talking about this cause they would have been killed of in 1900. If I have a cow positive for brucellosis my herd would be quarantined and positives would be in the bottom of the pit, mandated by the State, under supervision by animal health department, not for the health of my cattle but for the health of the states cattle producers.

 

[OverlordBear]

WSF and RMEF could do a joint high fence around the private property owners line to keep his sheep out. And in federal court sue all domestic sheep ranching operations from grazing on public lands because it endangers the health and safety of wolves and grizzlies the truly delicate species on the landscape.....