Montana ridiculousness- Pref point debacle

[Wind Gypsy]

I’m sure there is a reason for this that I’m missing, but wouldn’t it just be smarter to do the LE tags first? Draw them and if a NR draws then they automatically get a combo tag. Once the LE draw is done they can draw the remaining combo tags. At least the. Everyone would be in for the LE draw. Am I missing something?

Interesting thought, would have to ponder that one a bit to be confident. I would guess this would result in more NR getting permits (closer to reaching 10% cap) and more NR with permits and a general tag that wouldn't have made it through the general pool at all based on insufficient PP. In turn it may be slightly harder for NR only looking for a general tag to draw one because the pool is smaller before they get in and fewer residents with LE permits because of the increase in NR permits.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

IMO the biggest BS aspect is #1- outfitted clients getting a different deal and #2 the lack of an option to keep PP and turn in general tag if you dont draw a permit.

 

[WIbiggame]

Interesting thought, would have to ponder that one a bit to be confident. I would guess this would result in more NR getting permits (closer to reaching 10% cap) and more NR with permits and a general tag that wouldn't have made it through the general pool at all based on insufficient PP. In turn it may be slightly harder for NR only looking for a general tag to draw one because the pool is smaller before they get in and fewer residents with LE permits because of the increase in NR permits.

It would resemble WY though wouldn't it? You would have LE units you can apply for or a general pool. Have the same 17000 cap figure what of those 17000 are LE and the rest go general?

 

[Edwin]

It would resemble WY though wouldn't it? You would have LE units you can apply for or a general pool. Have the same 17000 cap figure what of those 17000 are LE and the rest go general?

Remove permits from the general allocation and have them completely separate. That permit is your tag to hunt there. You either apply for general or you apply for the permit. That would resemble wyoming. You draw general, you lose your points. You draw permit, you lose your points. The current MT combination license and permit process is a non resident money grab

 

[WIbiggame]

Remove permits from the general allocation and have them completely separate. That permit is your tag to hunt there. You either apply for general or you apply for the permit. That would resemble wyoming. You draw general, you lose your points. You draw permit, you lose your points. The current MT combination license and permit process is a non resident money grab

Yeah I applied in WY this year and really like the system they have.

 

[NDGuy]

Remove permits from the general allocation and have them completely separate. That permit is your tag to hunt there. You either apply for general or you apply for the permit. That would resemble wyoming. You draw general, you lose your points. You draw permit, you lose your points. The current MT combination license and permit process is a non resident money grab

Stop making sense Schlerk

 

[brocksw]

I agree with above. Bonus point only, apply for general or permit unit.

@Ben Lamb informed me the only way to change this is through legislation. MT Hunters would have to support this. NR would have to support this. We'd need someone to write the bill. Someone to sponsor it. Hunters to support it.

Money is driving factor here so if we remove pref points then bonus point prices would go to $100+ to make up for those costs. This would make some hunts more expensive.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I agree with above. Bonus point only, apply for general or permit unit.

@Ben Lamb informed me the only way to change this is through legislation. MT Hunters would have to support this. NR would have to support this. We'd need someone to write the bill. Someone to sponsor it. Hunters to support it.

Money is driving factor here so if we remove pref points then bonus point prices would go to $100+ to make up for those costs. This would make some hunts more expensive.

The question is - why would MT residents give a shit about the jacked up NR system other than having friends and relatives that want to hunt with them and to spite MOGA's BS?

 

[brocksw]

The question is - why would MT residents give a shit about the jacked up NR system other than having friends and relatives that want to hunt with them and to spite MOGA's BS?

That's a good question, one I've asked myself as well. I think we may have one advantage. Worsech want's to simplify because his staff was receiving 40k calls a year regarding questions about apps and regs. I would think this would significantly help with that and he may be looking for an easy win given how things have been going. If we can get the commission and worsech to support we may have a chance. The caveat will be zero loss of dollars incoming. So we'd need the FWP to work with us in figuring out what that means for bonus point cost.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Here's another funny scenario:

NR books with outfitter for LE Permit hunt. Outfitter does not operate in general tag area. Customer pays $200 for the 2 preference points perk, gets general tag, and fails to draw permit. Hunter is prohibited from using general tag DIY because of the extra PP and must eat the return fee costs (roughly $180 off memory). Hunter is back to zero PP and has $380 less in his wallet (430 If including bonus point cost).

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Here's another funny scenario:

NR books with outfitter for LE Permit hunt. Outfitter does not operate in general tag area. Customer pays $200 for the 2 preference points perk, gets general tag, and fails to draw permit. Now said hunter is forced to return the general tag and eat the return fee costs (roughly $180 off memory). Hunter is back to zero PP and has $380 less in his wallet (430 If including bonus point cost).

I’m sure some workaround is coming. You know, we gotta keep it simple so clients know when they’ll draw,,,

 

[WIbiggame]

I’m sure some workaround is coming. You know, we gotta keep it simple so clients know when they’ll draw,,,

It also will help with the 10x multiplier math for Outfitted Clients vs DIY NR spending

 

[Edwin]

Here's another funny scenario:

NR books with outfitter for LE Permit hunt. Outfitter does not operate in general tag area. Customer pays $200 for the 2 preference points perk, gets general tag, and fails to draw permit. Hunter is prohibited from using general tag DIY because of the extra PP and must eat the return fee costs (roughly $180 off memory). Hunter is back to zero PP and has $380 less in his wallet (430 If including bonus point cost).

It's only kinda funny. Like another $200 funny. Otherwise I'm just laughing at myself for taking it in the shorts all these years....

 

[JAG]

Here's another funny scenario:

NR books with outfitter for LE Permit hunt. Outfitter does not operate in general tag area. Customer pays $200 for the 2 preference points perk, gets general tag, and fails to draw permit. Hunter is prohibited from using general tag DIY because of the extra PP and must eat the return fee costs (roughly $180 off memory). Hunter is back to zero PP and has $380 less in his wallet (430 If including bonus point cost).

And for some more Montanna Magic:

That Hunter with zero PP improved his chances of winning next year because he has zero PP instead of 3.*

*(because MT law outlines that 75% of the available combination licenses should be made available to applicants with the highest points while the remaining 25% are available to applicants who have not purchased preference points)

 

[Wind Gypsy]

And for some more Montanna Magic:

That Hunter with zero PP improved his chances of winning next year because he has zero PP instead of 3.*

*(because MT law outlines that 75% of the available combination licenses should be made available to applicants with the highest points while the remaining 25% are available to applicants who have not purchased preference points)

I'm not sure I believe 0 will be better odds than if they bought 2 again the following year. We'll see i guess.

 

[Shangobango]

I’m sure some workaround is coming. You know, we gotta keep it simple so clients know when they’ll draw,,,

I am guessing as soon as 3 points goes to less than 100% things will change again.

 

[Pucky Freak]

MT NR Big Game Draw vs. Calvin Ball

 

[Trial153]

The thing that boggles my mind with this is how anyone designing this system can look at and think it’s a good idea. I am sorry these people have to be morons.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The thing that boggles my mind with this is how anyone designing this system can look at and think it’s a good idea. I am sorry these people have to be morons.

FWP is well aware from my conversations with them but the legislature makes the rules. Legislature gives zero shits as long as they are doing something to help their MOGA friends.

 

[Kramer588]

So i bought a point and applied for the big game combo last year and didn't draw, would i be safe to just purchase a point this year and not lose my points since i applied for a tag last year? Also if i read it correctly, a PP is good for any combo tag, just because i tried to use it for the big game combo last year, doesn't mean i cant apply for just deer or elk this year?