Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[Gerald Martin]

So, unlimited permits that are going to eventually move to LE state wide?

It would help biologically. It’s not going to be acceptable to the general public, socially.

Ironically, this very thing would be possible to happen under the framework of our proposal since all current LE unit season structures are not being changed. However, it would have to happen from the involvement of hunters at the local level to petition the commission and area biologists to change a specific unit regulation from general to whatever form of LE they desire.

If you can herd the cats effectively enough it would be possible.

 

[Jon Boy]

I think elk hunting in November for bulls is hard. The guys that give up and head east to blast a forky will probably give up on the elk hunting anyways by mid-late November. Elk are a little harder to find and shoot off roads. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you're giving the average Montana hunter a lot of credit.

If there’s nothin

Was it this one?

2011 MT Muley

I shot this little one on 11/11/11. I got him mixed up with another big buck in the same drainage and ended up spooking them and took a running shot on what I thought was the big buck. Walked up to him only to see the big one running off. Oh well im still happy with him. Also is a pic of my...

www.hunttalk.com

Or maybe this one?

Deer - lets see em

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum Here are my biggest deer (so far) B&C Whitetail from SD Great whiteail! You score it? Must be at least 180? Do you mind me asking what unit you were in? Public or Private?

www.hunttalk.com

i was 17 and 18 when I shot both of those bucks, and if I remember correctly I shot both with in the time frame of the proposed season the 2nd one is a mature deer so I’m not sure if you’re proving my point the level of pettiness you just went through to stalk my profile from when I was 18 years old 13 years ago just brought you down to a whole new level though that has me crying

 

[Shed God]

It's impossible to go LE but we can change the season to October. With that the biggest topic in mt is the amount of elk that seek sanctuary on private land during hunting season? Hmm

 

[Shed God]

Gerald elaborate on going LE for me. In crayon for me. Explain. Break it down.

 

[Shed God]

Nice buck Jon boy. U could kill 1 that that every 3 to 5 yrs LE limited. I wouldn't put glass on him though. Lol

 

[Point Creep]

If there’s nothin

i was 17 and 18 when I shot both of those bucks, and if I remember correctly I shot both with in the time frame of the proposed season the 2nd one is a mature deer so I’m not sure if you’re proving my point the level of pettiness you just went through to stalk my profile from when I was 18 years old 13 years ago just brought you down to a whole new level though that has me crying

I didn’t see that one in the advanced searching feature. I guess if they don’t have milk on their lips - they are “mature”. Nice buck - there’d be a lot more like that if they weren’t shot all November - every November, by everybody.

 

[Shed God]

Greenhorn/hedgehog in your opinion does an October MD general season effect a November general season. And in your opinion how?

 

[huntin24/7]

Not directing this at anyone specifically here, but something I’ve noticed any time on forums, FWP meetings, or just in general conversation when there’s discussion about changes to deer management: it’s stated or insinuated by the hunters that are unwilling to give up anything ever that those who would like changes that would likely result in more mature deer are selfish. We’re all a little selfish if we admit it, but I always found that so hypocritical.

 

[Shed God]

What's selfish the proposal is Oct MD. Giving up rut hunting. LE gives up opurtunity.

Selfish is the ones making $$$ off it.

Everyone seems to want better MD hunting

 

[Gerald Martin]

Gerald elaborate on going LE for me. In crayon for me. Explain. Break it down.
[/QUOTE


Our proposal does not affect the season dates of any units designated LE that requires a permit to hunt for that specie that requires a permit.

Let’s pick hypothetical unit 123 for example. If it’s currently a general unit for deer and elk our proposal would change the dates of that unit to the season structure in our proposal. If local hunters don’t want those dates for that particular unit they could gather support and petition the FWP commission to change unit 123 from general to a permit area with whatever form of LE permit they could agree upon and get the commission to enact.

It would have to go through the season setting process just like our proposal will have to and allow for public comment and input before the commission decides.

Or, you can take your individual proposal and present it to a commissioner and ask him to enter it into the process for consideration. Individual requests don’t usually make it into the official process but there was a recent event where Commissioner Tabor presented a proposal to change pheasant seasons from an early January closure to a January 31 closure because one guy wrote him a letter asking him to. It almost passed even though there was significant testimony against it during the public comment period at the commission meeting.

I was present at local FWP public meetings in region 1 where several hundred local hunters gathered signatures and petitioned FWP to create a LE mule deer permit for an area just outside of Libby. FWP biologists were not in support of creating the permit area and recommended against it in their presentation. It did pass when the commission met due to the amount of public support in favor of it.


One thing that I think is important about our proposal is that it maintains commission authority to adjust individual units or parts of our proposal either before implementation or after the effects of implementation are known.

That’s one reason why mandatory reporting for all hunters is so important and will be introduced as a stand alone legislation independent of the rest of our season structure proposal.

We can all argue about the “best” way to manage, but without good data that we all can access and trust, our best educated guesses about how hunters affect wildlife populations will always be less educated
than they could be with better data.

Mandatory reporting isn’t going to to change the needs for area biologists to continue their biological surveys and monitoring of the health of habitat and resources. However, I think they’ll be even more able to make good management decisions if they have solid data on how hunters are interacting with and affecting wildlife.

 

[Gerald Martin]

(Sorry. I screwed up the formatting when I tried to quote @Shed God. My previous reply is easier to read below)

Our proposal does not affect the season dates of any units designated LE that requires a permit to hunt for that specie that requires a permit.

Let’s pick hypothetical unit 123 for example. If it’s currently a general unit for deer and elk our proposal would change the dates of that unit to the season structure in our proposal. If local hunters don’t want those dates for that particular unit they could gather support and petition the FWP commission to change unit 123 from general to a permit area with whatever form of LE permit they could agree upon and get the commission to enact.

It would have to go through the season setting process just like our proposal will have to and allow for public comment and input before the commission decides.

Or, you can take your individual proposal and present it to a commissioner and ask him to enter it into the process for consideration. Individual requests don’t usually make it into the official process but there was an event a couple years ago where Commissioner Tabor presented a proposal to change pheasant seasons from an early January closure to a January 31 closure because one guy wrote him a letter asking him to. It almost passed even though there was significant testimony against it during the public comment period at the commission meeting.

I was present at local FWP public meetings in region 1 where several hundred local hunters gathered signatures and petitioned FWP to create a LE mule deer permit for an area just outside of Libby. FWP biologists were not in support of creating the permit area and recommended against it in their presentation. It did pass when the commission met due to the amount of public support in favor of it.


One thing that I think is important about our proposal is that it maintains commission authority to adjust individual units or parts of our proposal either before implementation or after the effects of implementation are known.

That’s one reason why mandatory reporting for all hunters is so important and will be introduced as a stand alone legislation independent of the rest of our season structure proposal.

We can all argue about the “best” way to manage, but without good data that we all can access and trust, our best educated guesses about how hunters affect wildlife populations will always be less educated than they could be with better data.

Mandatory reporting isn’t going to to change the needs for area biologists to continue their biological surveys and monitoring of the health of habitat and resources. However, I think they’ll be even better able to make good management decisions if they have solid data on how hunters are interacting with and affecting wildlife.

 

[mtmuley]

That’s one reason why mandatory reporting for all hunters is so important and will be introduced as a stand alone legislation independent of the rest of our season structure proposal.

This will pay big dividends in my opinion. mtmuley

 

[Shed God]

Iam all in on LE limited/unlimited. But what if u added a week archery elk and took a week from MD boom stick October or does that cut into budgets of the rich and famous. Along with that general cow elk season private land only all mule deer season. No bs just sign in and go. Don't participate no complaints

 

[Gerald Martin]

Iam all in on LE limited/unlimited. But what if u added a week archery elk and took a week from MD boom stick October or does that cut into budgets of the rich and famous. Along with that general cow elk season private land only all mule deer season. No bs just sign in and go. Don't participate no complaints

Speaking personally, I would like to see a week longer archery season and a three week October rifle season instead of the four weeks we are proposing. If there was enough public buy in of the idea that it wouldn’t torpedo the entire proposal I would be in favor of it.

On the social side of getting this to pass, I think that the masses of MT resident hunters are going to be more resistant to change than the “rich and famous” or even the “outfitter lobby” that we’re all conditioned to distrust and dislike.

 

[Shed God]

I still don't know honestly what u guys are talking about. People not wanting to give up opurtunity, chance to kill a MD dink. Idk who your talking about. Surveys I never seen or heard of. Make sense if they given to non resident but I don't know.

I get asked did u hunt deer. I say no. I applied LE

What unit tell them 324 because they fwp ruined it.

Same with my kids.

Did u c wolves yes I hunt region 3

Did u c moose yes the wolves were stalking them.

 

[Shed God]

Are those surveys given too non residents, opportunity.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I still don't know honestly what u guys are talking about. People not wanting to give up opurtunity, chance to kill a MD dink. Idk who your talking about. Surveys I never seen or heard of. Make sense if they given to non resident but I don't know.

I get asked did u hunt deer. I say no. I applied LE

What unit tell them 324 because they fwp ruined it.

Same with my kids.

Did u c wolves yes I hunt region 3

Did u c moose yes the wolves were stalking them.

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/conservation/deer/mule-deer-resident-deer-hunter-survey-2023.pdf

The survey referenced was a FWP commissioned survey that was sent to 5000 hunters and the results were publicized by FWP and interpreted by FWP.

You weren’t one of the chosen ones whose opinion was asked. Don’t feel bad, I wasn’t either.

I linked the survey in my post.

 

[Shed God]

I have never been one of the chosen.

 

[DFS]

Are those surveys given too non residents, opportunity.

I know of two people that received the last survey. Previous to that I never knew of anyone. FWP leans hard on that survey per the fwp staff I have talked to. I support this proposal I also support LE unlimited because fwp will not be able to hide from the data and changes would be forced in my area. (Call me selfish) I don’t care how or what changes but something has to give.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I have never been one of the chosen.

Maybe it’s time to choose your own? The church of Shed God?