Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[brockel]

Please post up any general units that still have good mule deer hunting. It’s not too late for us to shoot those areas out this fall. -asking for a friend

Might be worth setting up a food stand on the old stage road in 700. There use to be a stand setup in 410 every year because there was so much traffic.

 

[OpenCountry]

But at least they are picking between mule deer and whitetail and neither during the rut. Then with 5 years or so of data they can come up with regional caps

I really hope it doesn’t take another 5 years to set regional caps. I think it’ll be real eye opening on the hunter numbers in regions 6/7 in the first two years.

 

[Nick87]

Better stick it out. Kids are making popcorn right now for me

Where did you post it?

 

[brockel]

Where did you post it?

Facebook. Montanica extreme or whatever it’s called

 

[Ben Lamb]

I want to preface everything I’m about to say with I haven’t read every comment yet but will. Also, I love the opportunity Montana offers because I love being able to hunt close to home all fall every year. There is enough quality to make most hunters excited but for those it doesn’t, there are other, higher quality hunts to be had in other states where they manage things a bit differently (where you can’t expect to hunt every year).

I think these proposals are thoughtful and made with good intentions but I think they are way too broad. Why does Montana as a whole need major overhaul instead of just the seriously impacted regions? I can only speak for the last 20 years in parts of Regions Four and Five but our deer herds are doing great.

If I had any suggestions on how to change the November deer hunt we currently have is to move certain areas (like Eastern MT) to primitive weapons or create a point restriction. That would surely keep more mature animals on the landscape. There isn’t a need to restructure the whole state IMO.

My only argument against choosing one species of deer is not understanding how it would benefit anything. The whitetail population is robust and mule deer can be protected in other ways as stated above. Not that anyone cares but this would place me in a mental crisis every application season as well

Lastly, why the massive changes to elk season structure when the problem is a mule deer problem? The proposed seasons lead me to think many elk would be pushed out of publicly accessible areas by the time the general November season opened.

And yes, I love hunting deer in the rut and would really be down about losing that opportunity.

The driver behind the structure for mule deer is not antler size or age class but herd integrity. Varying age classes help that for sure but the proposal is striving to maintain ample opportunity for everyone to hunt and take a legal animal without dictating antler size or through permits. The trophy potential of this proposal isn't high, but the conservation potential is. According to FWP, the mule deer population is half of what it was 10 years ago. If there is another drought, bad fire season or other calamity, then there will be fewer than that.

As for why to redo elk as well, we are about to enter into our 9th shoulder season in 2024. These temporary seasons are now becoming permanent as harvest levels do not always meet the desired outcomes for managers and landowners. Low hunter success rates on public land during the regular season, continued instances of problematic concentrations of wildlife and increasing hunter pressure across wide swaths of time will have diminishing returns which would warrant exploration of another approach.

It is all tied together, elk & deer, because the largest common denominator is the pressure we place on wildlife during those 6 months long hunting seasons.

 

[brockel]

I guess my changes thinking of landowner/hunter relations I would have archery September 1-30. October 1-31 would be general elk and general deer with having to pick region and species for deer. Have private land cow Nov1-30. If we have to have the youth days have them thanksgiving day to the following sunday for 10-12 year olds only any buck.

 

[HappyCamper]

The driver behind the structure for mule deer is not antler size or age class but herd integrity. Varying age classes help that for sure but the proposal is striving to maintain ample opportunity for everyone to hunt and take a legal animal without dictating antler size or through permits. The trophy potential of this proposal isn't high, but the conservation potential is. According to FWP, the mule deer population is half of what it was 10 years ago. If there is another drought, bad fire season or other calamity, then there will be fewer than that.

As for why to redo elk as well, we are about to enter into our 9th shoulder season in 2024. These temporary seasons are now becoming permanent as harvest levels do not always meet the desired outcomes for managers and landowners. Low hunter success rates on public land during the regular season, continued instances of problematic concentrations of wildlife and increasing hunter pressure across wide swaths of time will have diminishing returns which would warrant exploration of another approach.

It is all tied together, elk & deer, because the largest common denominator is the pressure we place in wildlife during those 6 months long hunting seasons.

I don’t doubt deer numbers are struggling in parts of the state but it’s hard to get on board with a statewide change up when I observed dozens of mule deer almost every try time I went out in 4 different units this last fall. I’m okay with how Eastern MT decides to manage their deer, not everyone else’s.

And not to derail thread but I agree elk management needs to change, just not how it’s been proposed. Shoulder seasons are mostly a joke and proof messing with season structure won’t fix the issue. The solutions lie in creating more access and against privatization of elk. Other states have some good examples of some access programs, not so much the privatization of elk.

 

[Bambistew]

I think this is all great. The only thing I could see backfiring is the fact that the only thing to hunt in October is mule deer. All that idle time and itching to get out before elk opens.

Do you think the pressure will increase on mule deer? It seems like it would limit the opportunity mule deer/elk hunter harvest by those who see a deer while elk hunting though.

If I lived there I would spend way more time hunting deer than I would have normally.

No silver bullets, and this is a great proposal. I hope it passes.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I think this is all great. The only thing I could see backfiring is the fact that the only thing to hunt in October is mule deer. All that idle time and itching to get out before elk opens.

Do you think the pressure will increase on mule deer? It seems like it would limit the opportunity mule deer/elk hunter harvest by those who see a deer while elk hunting

It has potential to increase focus on mule deer. However, by removing the vulnerability of the rut from the equation and folks having to decide to hunt either a mule deer or whitetail only we’re pretty certain to see an improvement over the current five week season that allows hunt mule deer in the rut.

 

[8andcounting]

It has potential to increase focus on mule deer. However, by removing the vulnerability of the rut from the equation and folks having to decide to hunt either a mule deer or whitetail only we’re pretty certain to see an improvement over the current five week season that allows hunt mule deer in the rut.

Honest question- don’t you think the same amount of mule deer bucks will get shot during an October only season ? And alot of them would be 2-3 points. Some young 4s . You might get one age class of older deer then the rest will get shot out ? Could be wrong. I think you’d be better off leaving season dates alone but going LE in eastern Montana , set a quota for NR and R do away with the big game combo for NR make it either deer combo or elk combo and have it be Le by region or district .

 

[MTpubliclander]

Out of curiosity what are the thoughts in regards to retention of biologists and Game wardens? The proposal says creative funding sources? And also incentives and perks of employment as a short term fix.

What are some of those ideas?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Honest question- don’t you think the same amount of mule deer bucks will get shot during an October only season ?

Overall with the required pick your region/ species and no rut hunting I don’t think the same amount of mule deer bucks will die in October as do with our current season structure.

Folks from western MT are going to have to weigh their desire to hunt November whitetails over Thanksgiving against traveling to the Custer or other regions. Some folks are going to stay home to hunt instead of making an additional trip. That’s going to mean multiple folks per party who chooses a home region to hunt instead of traveling east/west.

NR’s who make a special trip to a unit to hunt from out of state are going to kill a deer on that trip if they can. The cost of NR licenses and expense of a trip ensures that most NR’s are going to attempt to notch a tag regardless of when the season occurs. Even though this proposal doesn’t offer a solution to that (if there even is a solution) it does attempt to bring NR licenses back into the historic statutory numbers.

I do think the net effect is positive when compared to continuing the status quo.

 

[brockel]

Honest question- don’t you think the same amount of mule deer bucks will get shot during an October only season ? And alot of them would be 2-3 points. Some young 4s . You might get one age class of older deer then the rest will get shot out ? Could be wrong. I think you’d be better off leaving season dates alone but going LE in eastern Montana , set a quota for NR and R do away with the big game combo for NR make it either deer combo or elk combo and have it be Le by region or district .

I think you’d see alot of people pick whitetail so they can hunt them through the rut.

 

[8andcounting]

I think you’d see alot of people pick whitetail so they can hunt them through the rut.

Residents . NR coming in are mostly coming from whitetail states , the NR will kill mule deer

 

[brockel]

Residents . NR coming in are mostly coming from whitetail states , the NR will kill mule deer

From the NR I talked to during the season most of them choose to hunt Montana for rut hunting mule deer. There’s a reason opening day in eastern Montana isn’t as busy as middle of November for deer hunting anymore. October is a tougher hunt.

 

[antlerradar]

I think that there is going to be more landowner participation in an early cow hunt than many think. Are places like the N bar going to shoot cows, probably not. Other landowners absolutely will. The sooner I can get the cows busted off the hay fields the better. Open question if they go to public or to at a different ranch owned by out of state owners though.

 

[antlerradar]

I guess my changes thinking of landowner/hunter relations I would have archery September 1-30. October 1-31 would be general elk and general deer with having to pick region and species for deer. Have private land cow Nov1-30. If we have to have the youth days have them thanksgiving day to the following sunday for 10-12 year olds only any buck.

Big reason for not doing this is that an Oct first rifle opener would be hard on rutting bull elk. Also not having the elk and Mule deer the same time will eliminate elk hunters taking a mule deer. Tough for struggling mule deer to recover when everyone hunting elk also has a mule deer tag.

 

[antlerradar]

I don’t doubt deer numbers are struggling in parts of the state but it’s hard to get on board with a statewide change up when I observed dozens of mule deer almost every try time I went out in 4 different units this last fall. I’m okay with how Eastern MT decides to manage their deer, not everyone else’s.

I think with the mobility of today's hunters we can not address issues in one part of the state with out effecting other parts of the state.

 

[Rack Daniels]

I think you’d see alot of people pick whitetail so they can hunt them through the rut.

I damn sure would

 

[Elktrack]

I think you’d see alot of people pick whitetail so they can hunt them through the rut.

I must be missing something. We already get whitetail in the rut. This proposal only makes the season go a few days further to the end of November. Right?
Last year it went Oct 21- Nov 26 the new proposal isn’t going to motivate additional whitetail hunters. IMO