Montana Deer Management- If I were King for a day.

[bigsky2]

Jump on zoom for the region 7 meeting at 3 pm. I’m expecting a strong defense of the status quo and an effort to “teach” us why this mule deer management is the best in the west

Watching the meeting now. It’s really frustrating how FWP always frames it as “you can have trophy bucks or you can have the opportunity to hunt bucks every year”, as if there’s no in between. Having the opportunity to hunt bucks every year doesn’t have to consist of rut hunting and a six week long season.

 

[brocksw]

Did that guy just say peak mule deer rut is Nov 6 -8?

 

[PablitoPescador]

Did that guy just say peak mule deer rut is Nov 6 -8?

One of many blatant lies. It’s amazing how data always seems to point to justification of whatever makes the most revenue. True in hunting and a host of other issues

 

[cgasner1]

We all agree something needs to change. Your plan would never go thru it’s was to much change for everyone. I feel the only way to make any changes at all at this point is for someone to vote the power of our game management over to the fwp and let them manage it by region as they see fit. That’s why you can’t get anything changed now and why these ridiculous bills keep coming up such as bulls for billionaires. Until the people on power hand over the power they have over our wildlife we are screwed

 

[brockel]

Did that guy just say peak mule deer rut is Nov 6 -8?

Are we classifying the does first cycle as the rut or are we talking the most buck movement?

 

[Irrelevant]

I guess do people think rut activity occurs in a pattern similar to a bell curve? I was just telling Capt American Freak, or whatever name he goes by now that I can't remember, that I've historically seen WAY more activity in late nov than early nov, but if I'm wrong, and the peak is really in early nov, but also assuming I'm still seeing the tail end in early Dec, then if a work backwards from the peak and equal distance shouldn't I/we be seeing it in the middle of Oct?

 

[Deleted member 53219]

I would like to think this would also cause hunters to care about their own backyard a little bit more instead of bouncing around elsewhere. This might be wishful thinking though. If hunters were forced to pick a region, maybe they would be more likely to advocate for better management (habitat improvements) of the region since that's where they would have to spend their time.

I do like Randy's explanation of valuable data collection. Something that is very much needed.

Totally agree with you. Western Montana people love to post about “heading out east” to fill a truck bed full of mule deer does and 2.5-3.5 year old bucks. If you had to pick your region, people would be more inclined to care about the quality of hunting closer to their homes since that would be the most convenient place to hunt, kind of like they have begun doing with special elk tags.

 

[brocksw]

Are we classifying the does first cycle as the rut or are we talking the most buck movement?

Yeah, I feel like I'm misunderstanding something, or what he said?

I mean, I believe the does might start cycling around then, but not many. I believe lots of bucks might start increasing movement or moving territory around then. But if he is classifying peak rut as the time when the most does are coming into estrus and therefore the most bucks are aggressively trying to get their peter wet, those are not the dates that come to mind.

If he's using some other metric, I'd be curious to know what that is. To my knowledge does only come into estrus for like 24 hrs, so if a bunch of does were coming into estrus that early, I'd find it incredibly hard to believe that the bucks were oblivious to that. I was in the badlands this year on Nov 7th and all the mature bucks were sitting by themselves, showing zero interest in breeding. Little forked horns were starting to show, but they don't know what's going on. That is consistent with what I see on a year to year basis.

Obviously, there are exceptions but...I dunno...I'm scratching my head on what he was talking about.

 

[Deleted member 53219]

Jump on zoom for the region 7 meeting at 3 pm. I’m expecting a strong defense of the status quo and an effort to “teach” us why this mule deer management is the best in the west

How did it go? Didn't realize I could stream it today or I would’ve tuned in..

 

[520 Road Sow]

Watching the meeting now. It’s really frustrating how FWP always frames it as “you can have trophy bucks or you can have the opportunity to hunt bucks every year”, as if there’s no in between. Having the opportunity to hunt bucks every year doesn’t have to consist of rut hunting and a six week long season.

You can lead a horse to water

 

[rogerthat]

Yeah, I feel like I'm misunderstanding something, or what he said?

I mean, I believe the does might start cycling around then, but not many. I believe lots of bucks might start increasing movement or moving territory around then. But if he is classifying peak rut as the time when the most does are coming into estrus and therefore the most bucks are aggressively trying to get their peter wet, those are the not the dates that come to mind.

If he's using some other metric, I'd be curious to know what that is. To my knowledge does only come into estrus for like 24 hrs, so if a bunch of does were coming into estrus that early, I'd find it incredibly hard to believe that the bucks were oblivious to that. I was in the badlands this year on Nov 7th and all the mature bucks were sitting by themselves, showing zero interest in breeding. Little forked horns were starting to show, but they don't know what's going on. That is consistent with what I see on a year to year basis.

Obviously, there are exceptions but...I dunno...I'm scratching my head on what he was talking about.

I guess I thought he said Nov 16-18

 

[brocksw]

I guess I thought he said Nov 16-18

 

[DFS]

I heard November 6-8 is the peak of the rut. I could have been wrong.

 

[brockel]

I heard November 6-8 is the peak of the rut. I could have been wrong.

Ya he for sure said 6-8. Myself I’d push that another week or so. But that’s when I’m seeing the most cruising. Maybe he figures the peak rut when a buck is covering the does in his little home range vs when he’s covering country looking for hot does?

 

[El Jason]

Are we classifying the does first cycle as the rut or are we talking the most buck movement?

Probably the greatest number of does bred, which is the first estrus.

 

[brocksw]

I guess do people think rut activity occurs in a pattern similar to a bell curve? I was just telling Capt American Freak, or whatever name he goes by now that I can't remember, that I've historically seen WAY more activity in late nov than early nov, but if I'm wrong, and the peak is really in early nov, but also assuming I'm still seeing the tail end in early Dec, then if a work backwards from the peak and equal distance shouldn't I/we be seeing it in the middle of Oct?

Bell curve with a right skew. Not uncommon to find some rut activity into the second half of December, even at our latitude. To my understanding that is mostly does that got missed in their first cycle.

 

[brockel]

It helps a ton or maybe I just think it does when you get landowners either there or calling in also saying the same things about the mule deer that the rest of our saying yet fwp isn’t seeing. A big landowner saying it has more clout to fwp than myself I think

 

[Nick87]

Bell curve with a right skew. Not uncommon to find some rut activity into the second half of December, even at our latitude. To my understanding that is mostly does that got missed in there first cycle.

View attachment 255116

Probably even more so in that buck to doe ratio.

 

[300stw]

i listened some,,,, the landowners that mentioned large downturn in populations,
were met with,,, the deer most likely moved to a new area due to any number of reasons,,,

can some one chime in and let us know were the deer went, im thinking wyoming

at what point is current hunting strategy addiditive mortality and actually hurting populations

i wish, 1 time in the history of mule deer management, some force would over react to the situation, and save to many deer, its easy to fix that problem,,,

 

[brocksw]

Probably even more so in that buck to doe ratio.

I'm not sure how much that affects it. Seems logical but I don't know. I know for a fact that I've seen bucks rutting does, lip curling, following, trying to mount, the whole shebang, as late as Dec 12. Ive killed a buck doing the same thing with a doe on Dec 9th. But in both instances, overall rut activity had gone down noticeably.