Montana Deer Management- If I were King for a day.

[antlerradar]

On the flip side, if your goal is to shoot barren does, earlier is better.

Earlier is also better if you are a landowner wanting to get does out of the hay field. This in turn might be better for the guy hunting public if the does find it is unhealthy to be standing in a field.

 

[antlerradar]

Jump on zoom for the region 7 meeting at 3 pm. I’m expecting a strong defense of the status quo and an effort to “teach” us why this mule deer management is the best in the west

If you could predict sporting events with this accuracy, you could make a lot of money in Los Vegas.

 

[8andcounting]

It can and it will. When is the question.

Don’t hold your breath

 

[Wind Gypsy]

To add on to prior thoughts, don't think you'd get many archery takers with that breakdown.

My tweaks:
General Archery season - 9/1-10/31
General Firearm Season - First Saturday in Oct - 3rd Sunday in Oct. Not so sure on Muleys but last week of Oct is $ rut hunting for whitetails.
Limited Entry - Month of November or shorter.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The page they would take is to eliminate NR licenses.

Too much outfitter/Rich NR influence for that to happen.. Maybe DIY licenses i guess.

 

[4ohSick]

I’m hoping for any change even just a little bit. I think make it simple and go general season opening weekend of antelope rifle-31st Make Nov 1-30 draw. If you put in for the draw whether you draw or not you aren’t allowed a general tag. Start managing doe tags by districts. No public land doe tags unless over objective in district. Remove the traditional season and youth season. No more come home to hunt licenses, native montanan license or student licenses.

One thing I hadn't considered with moving general deer season to October would be the effect on Antelope hunting. Having spent one antelope opener in WSS, I can't imagine what the zoo would look like if there were also rifle hunters going after deer in the same limited bits of public/BMA. I'm sure it's the same in Region 7. I'm not sure what I would change, but it would be nice to still have one weekend where the only people out with rifles are those who drew antelope tags.

 

[Hem]

One thing I hadn't considered with moving general deer season to October would be the effect on Antelope hunting. Having spent one antelope opener in WSS, I can't imagine what the zoo would look like if there were also rifle hunters going after deer in the same limited bits of public/BMA. I'm sure it's the same in Region 7. I'm not sure what I would change, but it would be nice to still have one weekend where the only people out with rifles are those who drew antelope tags.

This is a good observation/point.
Pretty nice to have a few weeks of rifle hunting-antelope only, as it is. But it wouldn't hurt to shorten the antelope season while we are at it.
Crap...another animal that desperately needs to be managed better.

 

[BuzzH]

But, from what I could follow and understand, the comments were consistent from most every group - deer numbers are in the tank and do not correspond to numbers stated by FWP's population models. Hopefully FWP heard the same thing in those comments.

Hopefully they hear some of the same comments from folks at other meetings. And hopefully this can be the start of changes to benefit the deer.

I can tell you they flat don't care what hunters are seeing, what outfitters are seeing, or what a wildlife watcher is seeing.

They trust their phony numbers and their population models. When they don't find the numbers they need its the same old story, "we flew on a bad day, all the bucks/bulls were in the timber, the green up wasn't quite right, the POS helicopter broke down"...and on and on and on.

The FWP is also very reluctant to EVER admit they were wrong. Further, the last people they believe are hunters who spend, and have spent, many decades hunting the same areas. That's a big mistake, IMO. But they sure do believe the landowners when they complain about too many deer, elk, pronghorn, turkeys, wolves, coyotes, whatever.

I'm experiencing the same in WY in some cases as well, and its super frustrating.

How about managing on what is OBSERVED, rather than what some model suggests?

If you don't see the numbers, don't just make up an excuse that you just didn't see them...pretty good odds, they just flat aren't there. In particular when you have very little data to support how many have been killed from a population, because you don't make harvest reporting mandatory.

I think its great that the folks on HT showed up, but I suspect their concerns, like mine, are falling on deaf ears...

 

[Deleted member 48080]

To add on to prior thoughts, don't think you'd get many archery takers with that breakdown.

My tweaks:
General Archery season - 9/1-10/31
General Firearm Season - First Saturday in Oct - 3rd Sunday in Oct. Not so sure on Muleys but last week of Oct is $ rut hunting for whitetails.
Limited Entry - Month of November or shorter.

You see good rut action for whitetail in Montana in October?

 

[Deleted member 48080]

One thing I hadn't considered with moving general deer season to October would be the effect on Antelope hunting. Having spent one antelope opener in WSS, I can't imagine what the zoo would look like if there were also rifle hunters going after deer in the same limited bits of public/BMA. I'm sure it's the same in Region 7. I'm not sure what I would change, but it would be nice to still have one weekend where the only people out with rifles are those who drew antelope tags.

Move antelope season to October 1-15. Problem solved.

Also, as it is now Antelope and general deer overlap.

 

[brocksw]

Just trying to play devils advocate. What if a lot of Montanans don't choose a 20 day bow season that over laps with part of the elk rut, over a rifle season of similar length? Does that still meet the goal of reducing take? Would the MT bowhunters association support limiting the archery season to a 20 day season that overlaps with the elk rut? Would they support their only other opportunity being in a shortened rifle season that puts them in direct and intense competition with rifle hunters?

If I was with the MT bow hunters assoc, I would not like what Randy's proposal does to archery deer hunting in MT and would be advocating for longer archery seasons. Perhaps they won't be involved or have an opinion? I don't know, just some food for thought, I could be wrong.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

You see good rut action for whitetail in Montana in October?

Good point and I should point out that experience is more so in MN/ND - last week of Oct might be my favorite time for increased daytime movement of older bucks. ASSumed MT whitetail at the same latitude would be similar.

 

[COSA1]

Just trying to play devils advocate. What if a lot of Montanans don't choose a 20 day bow season that over laps with part of the elk rut, over a rifle season of similar length? Does that still meet the goal of reducing take? Would the MT bowhunters association support limiting the archery season to a 20 day season that overlaps with the elk rut? Would they support their only other opportunity being in a shortened rifle season that puts them in direct and intense competition with rifle hunters?

If I was with the MT bow hunters assoc, I would not like what Randy's proposal does to archery deer hunting in MT and would be advocating for longer archery seasons. Perhaps they won't be involved or have an opinion? I don't know, just some food for thought, I could be wrong.

I like it, especially the aspect of having hunters choose between LE and a General tag. It should reduce a bit of pressure during the general (since LE applicants are not hunting), and boost draw odds for LE applicants. It's giving the hunter the choice.
I do think there could be some pushback from bowhunters on the shortened season, so maybe give them another week during November? Probably wouldn't increase the harvest too much.

 

[The Hedgehog]

You guys and all your season date change dreams might as well be thinking/typing what lottery numbers to pick.

 

[xcskier_hunter]

Not sure what the point of having such a short archery season is. In my opinion Montana could could just go with a long archery season (Sept 1 - Nov 30) and then fit a gun season within that (Oct 1 - Oct 15). Of course resident hunters would probably not like that so you'd probably have to make the gun season Oct 1 - Oct 31 as a compromise. There could be some sort of whitetail only gun season in November or December also.

Seems to me the best way to keep opportunity while protecting the resource is to limit hunter efficacy rather than just shortening seasons.

 

[Deleted member 48080]

You guys and all your season date change dreams might as well be thinking/typing what lottery numbers to pick.

I agree. The chances of any of these changes happening are slim to none.

That said, there's been a ton of FWP staff hanging around here lately. Maybe, just maybe having them see the results of this poll will give them some pause next time they suggest everyone is happy with the status quo.

 

[BuzzH]

Just trying to play devils advocate. What if a lot of Montanans don't choose a 20 day bow season that over laps with part of the elk rut, over a rifle season of similar length? Does that still meet the goal of reducing take? Would the MT bowhunters association support limiting the archery season to a 20 day season that overlaps with the elk rut? Would they support their only other opportunity being in a shortened rifle season that puts them in direct and intense competition with rifle hunters?

If I was with the MT bow hunters assoc, I would not like what Randy's proposal does to archery deer hunting in MT and would be advocating for longer archery seasons. Perhaps they won't be involved or have an opinion? I don't know, just some food for thought, I could be wrong.

Why do bowhunters always "need" more opportunity?

They make up a minority of the hunting population but expect the most...and bellyache the loudest when they don't get their way.

 

[Deleted member 48080]

Good point and I should point out that experience is more so in MN/ND - last week of Oct might be my favorite time for increased daytime movement of older bucks. ASSumed MT whitetail at the same latitude would be similar.

For what it's worth, Montana and Idaho seem to have about the latest whitetail ruts I know of, aside from the way Southern latitudes. My friends in the Midwest consistently see the rut happen 2-3 weeks before we do. If I had 5 days to hunt whitetail east of the divide in Montana I'd hunt November 10-15, and West of the divide I'd hunt 15-20.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I agree. The chances of any of these changes happening are slim to none.

That said, there's been a ton of FWP staff hanging around here lately. Maybe, just maybe having them see the results of this poll will give them some pause next time they suggest everyone is happy with the status quo.

If that's the case, I'll make a quick DUMBED DOWN request. Rocket science is not required to allow plenty of opportunity while doing the following two things..

1. END NOVEMBER MULE DEER RIFLE HUNTING​

2. END PUBLIC LAND MULE DEER DOE HUNTING​

 

[Irrelevant]

Why do bowhunters always "need" more opportunity?

They make up a minority of the hunting population but expect the most...and bellyache the loudest when they don't get their way.

That wasn't how it was framed.

A hunter can hunt, and may chose which weapon he uses by which season is offered. Under Randy's proposal I don't need anymore archery opportunity, I'm just going to rifle hunt, which is what >95% of people looking that proposal are going to conclude. So you don't end up achieving the goal of spreading people out or a reduced pressure during rifle season.