Montana Deer Management- If I were King for a day.

[BuzzH]

That wasn't how it was framed.

A hunter can hunt, and may chose which weapon he uses by which season is offered. Under Randy's proposal I'm don't need anymore archery opportunity, I'm just going to rifle hunt, which is what >95% of people looking that proposal are going to conclude.

Right, but the comment was about archery "opportunity" not being enough in Randy's proposal. What the archery hunters would be "getting" is the ability to shoot EITHER a w-tail or a mule deer on the archery general tag, while rifle hunters would have to choose one or the other.

So give them 30 days in September and call it good...same with archery elk.

 

[sclancy27]

The easiest way to limit harvest for mule deer would be to implement "primitive only" seasons during the rut (after Nov 10th or so), you can choose archery or traditional muzzleloader. That might gain some traction. Removing rut hunting is a non-starter with the majority of MT hunters. It may not be the 'best' solution but would be a step in the right direction.

 

[Deleted member 48080]

That wasn't how it was framed.

A hunter can hunt, and may chose which weapon he uses by which season is offered. Under Randy's proposal I don't need anymore archery opportunity, I'm just going to rifle hunt, which is what >95% of people looking that proposal are going to conclude. So you don't end up achieving the goal of spreading people out or a reduced pressure during rifle season.

You honestly don't think hunting pressure would be reduced during general rifle with my proposal?

 

[atlas]

If we shorten the seasons we'll have even longer to b*** on HT

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Why do bowhunters always "need" more opportunity?

They make up a minority of the hunting population but expect the most...and bellyache the loudest when they don't get their way.

My thoughts have nothing to do with bowhunters "needing" more opportunity and everything to do creating a season structure that would actually entice some people choose the archery season rather than firearm season, protect some deer, AND offer some scraps to the 95% of people who'd complain about the drastic reduction in opportunity to hunt with the proposed regs to garner at least a little more support.

As covered above, I'm admittedly biased by things in my home state which are likely not directly related to MT - but in MN Deer season is open OTC for archery from mid Sept through the end of the year. About 13% of harvest is archery and 81% is firearm and the balance muzzleloaders. Almost all of that 81% firearm harvest happens in just 9 day long season or in the first 9 days of the season in zones where the season is longer. That tells me that incentivizing people to hunt in the archery season may be a good way to save deer. I'll have to do some # crunching on MT for more apples to apples compare.

 

[BuzzH]

You honestly don't think hunting pressure would be reduced during general rifle with my proposal?

Agreed, it absolutely would reduce general rifle pressure and hunting pressure over-all for every weapon type as far as deer hunting goes.

No question or doubt about it.

 

[The Hedgehog]

HEY FWP: WHY CAN'T WE RIFLE HUNT ELK FOR THE ENTIRE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER?

 

[BuzzH]

My thoughts have nothing to do with bowhunters "needing" more opportunity and everything to do creating a season structure that would actually entice some people choose the archery season rather than firearm season, protect some deer, AND offer some scraps to the 95% of people who'd complain about the drastic reduction in opportunity to hunt with the proposed regs to garner at least a little more support.

As covered above, I'm admittedly biased by things in my home state which are likely not directly related to MT - but in MN Deer season is open OTC for archery from mid Sept through the end of the year. About 13% of harvest is archery and 81% is firearm and the balance muzzleloaders. Almost all of that 81% firearm harvest happens in just 9 day long season or in the first 9 days of the season in zones where the season is longer. That tells me that incentivizing people to hunt in the archery season may be a good way to save deer. I'll have to do some # crunching on MT for more apples to apples compare.

I'm fine with a 30 day archery season and even allowing archery hunters to shoot either species on their general tag. They're also getting first chance at every deer in the state by the 30 day head start.

If that's not enough enticing/opportunity then feel free to move to MN...and I would also argue if they aren't going for Randy's proposal, then they aren't really archery hunters to begin with, but rifle hunters who take advantage of both seasons.

 

[brocksw]

You honestly don't think hunting pressure would be reduced during general rifle with my proposal?

LE allocation is only 2.5%. If you apply for LE and don't get drawn and are still allowed to get a general tag, that's only a tiny fraction of hunters off the landscape in general units.

What percentage of people will choose a 20 day bow season over a rifle? My guess is not many, like less than 10%. But

I'm not arguing to be right or trying to be thorn in your side. I seriously want MT to fulfill it's potential as a mule deer state. So I'm just asking questions and trying to shoot holes in things to see if there's something someone hasn't thought about or an idea that might work better. But people need to be prepared for feedback and outside opinions from the outside world. This idea will not just be subject to criticism on hunttalk, but every swinging D in the state. HT is not the only seat at the table that has an opinion.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Don’t hold your breath

 

[BuzzH]

LE allocation is only 2.5%. If you apply for LE and don't get drawn and are still allowed to get a general tag, that's only a tiny fraction of hunters off the landscape in general units.

What percentage of people will choose a 20 day bow season over a rifle? My guess is not many, like less than 10%. But

I'm not arguing to be right or trying to be thorn in your side. I seriously want MT to fulfill it's potential as a mule deer state. So I'm just asking questions and trying to shoot holes in things to see if there's something someone hasn't thought about or an idea that might work better. But people need to be prepared for feedback and outside opinions from the outside world. This idea will not just be subject to criticism on hunttalk, but every swinging D in the state. HT is not the only seat at the table that has an opinion.

Pretty sure, under Randy's proposal anyone applying for a LE tag would not be allowed to get a general tag. I agree with that part of the proposal for all kinds of good reasons.

Also, those truly dedicated archery hunters would have very little pressure and a most enjoyable 30 day season, another incentive for them to choose that option.

Limited entry deadline will remain March 15. If you apply for a limited entry hunt before that deadline, you lose your rights to a general tag. If you miss that deadline, you will be able to buy one of the three general season tags at any point of that year.

 

[Deleted member 48080]

LE allocation is only 2.5%. If you apply for LE and don't get drawn and are still allowed to get a general tag, that's only a tiny fraction of hunters off the landscape in general units.

What percentage of people will choose a 20 day bow season over a rifle? My guess is not many, like less than 10%. But

I'm not arguing to be right or trying to be thorn in your side. I seriously want MT to fulfill it's potential as a mule deer state. So I'm just asking questions and trying to shoot holes in things to see if there's something someone hasn't thought about or an idea that might work better. But people need to be prepared for feedback and outside opinions from the outside world. This idea will not just be subject to criticism on hunttalk, but every swinging D in the state. HT is not the only seat at the table that has an opinion.

You need to go back and re-read my proposal. Maybe I worded it poorly, but every hunter that makes one of the following decisions will not be hunting the general mule deer rifle season-

1-Applied for a Limited entry tag (APPLY, not draw.
2-Chose the November Whitetail tag.
3-Chose the archery tag.

Also, I'd be 100% fine with that archery tag going to the end of September and being either species. I mainly was thinking end it the 20th so there wouldn't be overlap with the rifle doe season, but if it makes more sense to hold that doe season later I don't see why that would hurt anything.

 

[brocksw]

Pretty sure, under Randy's proposal anyone applying for a LE tag would not be allowed to get a general tag.

Limited entry deadline will remain March 15. If you apply for a limited entry hunt before that deadline, you lose your rights to a general tag. If you miss that deadline, you will be able to buy one of the three general season tags at any point of that year.

Is that law already?

Last I checked it was just a proposal on HT. Once the rest of the public and other organizations get their say and provide their feedback, it may not be worded as such.

 

[brocksw]

You need to go back and re-read my proposal. Maybe I worded it poorly, but every hunter that makes one of the following decisions will not be hunting the general mule deer rifle season-

1-Applied for a Limited entry tag (APPLY, not draw.
2-Chose the November Whitetail tag.
3-Chose the archery tag.

Also, I'd be 100% fine with that archery tag going to the end of September and being either species. I mainly was thinking end it the 20th so there wouldn't be overlap with the rifle doe season, but if it makes more sense to hold that doe season later I don't see why that would hurt anything.

I read that...I'm just operating under the assumption that it is highly unlikely that your proposal will get put into law exactly how it's worded. I could be wrong, but my guess is other members of the public, including hunting organizations, will have feedback and recommendations to represent their or their members interests.

 

[Irrelevant]

You honestly don't think hunting pressure would be reduced during general rifle with my proposal?

Yes, but for other reasons, not because more than a handful of people are choosing archery in Sept.

If you granted archers a week later in the year, maybe even just for eastside whitetail, that would "sweeten the pot" enough people would choose it.

 

[BuzzH]

Is that law already?

Last I checked it was just a proposal on HT. Once the rest of the public and other organizations get their say and provide their feedback, it may not be worded as such.

Nothing in Randy's proposal is the law, that's why its a proposal is my best guess...

But the proposal makes sense, every bit of it.

My concession to the high pitched whining of the archery hunters is equal number of days AND they can shoot either a w-tail or mule deer in their 30 day season on the archery general tag.

I've not seen a better proposal that would maintain opportunity, improve quality, and decrease hunter crowding.

Its pretty obvious he's put a lot of thought into it, and its brilliant.

Exactly why the FWP won't consider it.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'm fine with a 30 day archery season and even allowing archery hunters to shoot either species on their general tag. They're also getting first chance at every deer in the state by the 30 day head start.

If that's not enough enticing/opportunity then feel free to move to MN...and I would also argue if they aren't going for Randy's proposal, then they aren't really archery hunters to begin with, but rifle hunters who take advantage of both seasons.

All I'm saying is the proposal is missing a very simple way to make it more agreeable to a large number of hunters AND reduce the crowding during rifle season when deer are actually getting killed. But if you prefer to keep it unpalatable to more people, have more people during rifle season, and stick it to those whiny entitled bowhunters, more power to you.

 

[Deleted member 48080]

Yes, but for other reasons, not because more than a handful of people are choosing archery in Sept.

If you granted archers a week later in the year, maybe even just for eastside whitetail, that would "sweeten the pot" enough people would choose it.

Do you mind explaining why?
Currently every single hunter in Montana can hunt our rifle season in late November when the deer are congregated in wintering grounds. Under this proposal a smaller number of hunters would be hunting at a time of year when the deer are more distributed.

 

[Deleted member 48080]

I read that...I'm just operating under the assumption that it is highly unlikely that your proposal will get put into law exactly how it's worded. I could be wrong, but my guess is other members of the public, including hunting organizations, will have feedback and recommendations to represent their or their members interests.

Okay, so you're changing my proposal and then shooting holes in that new proposal. Got it.

 

[BuzzH]

All I'm saying is the proposal is missing a very simple way to make it more agreeable to a large number of hunters AND reduce the crowding during rifle season when deer are actually getting killed. But if it makes you feel better to keep it unpalatable to more people, have more people during rifle season, and stick it to those whiny entitled bowhunters, more power to you.

The split between mule deer general and w-tail general is where the reduction in crowding is going to be the most significant. If I choose a w-tail only tag, I'm not going to be over hunting the Custer for mule deer...and vice-versa. Plus, that will save a mule deer from me shooting one, since I don't have a tag valid for mule deer to begin with.

I'm not seeing how adding a shit-load of days to archery is going to sweeten the pot...very few archery hunters in Montana are archery only guys. They're 2 season hunters that will drop the bow in the trash if they have to choose one or the other, more days won't change that.

No different than if you had a "traditional only muzzleloader tag"...very few would choose the December only season no matter how long it was.

Finally, if we truly care about the resource and giving them a break from all hunting...archery, rifle, muzzleloader, then stacking more days to pacify archery hunters makes NO sense.

The animals need a break, from all weapon types. If 30 days isn't enough, then go shoot coyotes, ducks, pheasants, etc. or go fishing.