Montana 2022 regulation changes.

[Irishman]

Tell your smart friend it was right in the regulations. mtmuley

I'm guessing he just got online, made sure he had the same unit he's been applying for in the past, gave his credit card info and applied. Maybe there was something in that process that said things have changed, I don't know.
The good news is he got a 350ish bull, took photos of many other bulls, and said he didn't see much in the way of other hunters. So maybe the change in permits is helping.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Nope, mtmuley said it.

 

[Redside]

I pulled an archery tag 2nd choice limited permit. I don't believe they changed the number of permits.

While I'm in favor of the change, I'm not sure I personally liked it. I could see doing it every 3-5 years or so. I started a new job so time off was tight. I took a week off and that was my archery elk hunting this year.

Without the change it would have been every weekend in my home unit with a week long hunt in the limited permit unit. So personally I'm not sure I liked it because of the limited archery hunting I did for elk, but it seems like it would have cut down on pressure for general units.

I went the first week of Oct. Pretty quiet. Saw quite a few people at the main trail heads, but once I got to where I camped/hunted I never saw anyone else. Saw plenty of elk, but didn't get it done.

 

[Point Creep]

I listened to a podcast (painful) with a couple local guys poo-pooing this new reg. They were bowhunting quota units and whimpering about not being able to hunt local general units. Their point was - “but we can come rifle hunt them later so what’s the big deal”. I hunted archery locally and didn’t see them or anybody else, it does make a difference. Sorry guys - sucks but you’re gonna have to choose at some point and give something up so there’s a glimmer of quality in general areas.

 

[Deleted member 53219]

I listened to a podcast (painful) with a couple local guys poo-pooing this new reg. They were bowhunting quota units and whimpering about not being able to hunt local general units. Their point was - “but we can come rifle hunt them later so what’s the big deal”. I hunted archery locally and didn’t see them or anybody else, it does make a difference. Sorry guys - sucks but you’re gonna have to choose at some point and give something up so there’s a glimmer of quality in general areas.

I pulled an archery tag 2nd choice limited permit. I don't believe they changed the number of permits.

While I'm in favor of the change, I'm not sure I personally liked it. I could see doing it every 3-5 years or so. I started a new job so time off was tight. I took a week off and that was my archery elk hunting this year.

Without the change it would have been every weekend in my home unit with a week long hunt in the limited permit unit. So personally I'm not sure I liked it because of the limited archery hunting I did for elk, but it seems like it would have cut down on pressure for general units.

I went the first week of Oct. Pretty quiet. Saw quite a few people at the main trail heads, but once I got to where I camped/hunted I never saw anyone else. Saw plenty of elk, but didn't get it done.

I was hoping this would be the result, western Montana guys would have to decide if they wanted to hunt their backyard or try to find time to head east, I still felt the special units were a zoo, but it at least has some guys reconsidering putting in for them to be able to hunt more and closer to home. I’ve heard that same complaining from guys, but no more having your cake and eating it too, which is what needs to happen. When it first came out before i read the new regs, I was really hoping it also meant they couldn’t hunt rifle in general, kind of a pick your weapon thing, because then the guys @Hopzone Freak was talking about would really reconsider putting in for special archery tags, freeing up the special unit archery landscape some more.

Bows are becoming so efficient and dudes are practicing more than ever and becoming better archery hunters to the point where the archery elk hunters have higher success rates in some of those special units than do the rifle hunters. No more is it, for some guys, just taking your bow out for a walk in big bull country in September and then falling back on general rifle season to fill the freezer with a raghorn. At least when it comes to elk, I think it is time to pick your weapon.

 

[antlerradar]

Now if we could just get something similar in the regulations for deer.

 

[WanderWoman]

I was not a fan of this regulation at first; I thought it kind of went against the spirit of MT hunting. But over the season I’ve heard enough different viewpoints I’m more neutral to it. I would have not anticipated it reducing crowding (especially with such high quotas everywhere), and would think that the pressure of only being able to hunt 1-2 districts would keep the pressure up (i.e., instead of going home to hunt general areas people would stick around and/or return more). Unless they went home and didn’t hunt the remainder of archery season. That will probably ebb and flow each year depending on conditions and gas prices I guess. I think having this regulation come out the same year as the dismantling of 900-20/other big changes to archery permits would make it difficult to tease out which change had which effect.

 

[8andcounting]

I thought it kind of went against the spirit of MT hunting.

I know - different thread - but this ^^^^ right here will be the problem with any changes regarding deer …lots - even most residents feel this way

 

[rogerthat]

I know - different thread - but this ^^^^ right here will be the problem with any changes regarding deer …lots - even most residents feel this way

The spirit of Montana hunting - 365 day pursuit with no critters on public land?

 

[DFS]

FWP broke the bank with their opportunity at all cost management. They might not realize it yet but they will be forced to make changes the sooner the better . As for the new elk hunting regulations it was a good start. If the quotas were set to a more reasonable level in the limited entry areas it would work.

 

[Redside]

I was hoping this would be the result, western Montana guys would have to decide if they wanted to hunt their backyard or try to find time to head east, I still felt the special units were a zoo, but it at least has some guys reconsidering putting in for them to be able to hunt more and closer to home.

Agreed, this is what I was trying to say in my previous post and didn’t mean to come across as complaining about the regulation change if I did. I was more complaining that the new job didn’t give me the month of Sept off to hunt elk in the breaks I probably wouldn’t have applied for the tag knowing that my time would be limited, but is what it is and still had a fun time.

I added up the limited archery tags when they changed, I think it was 8-10k tags if I remember right. I figured it would make a difference in the general units for archery.

 

[Deleted member 53219]

Agreed, this is what I was trying to say in my previous post and didn’t mean to come across as complaining about the regulation change if I did. I was more complaining that the new job didn’t give me the month of Sept off to hunt elk in the breaks I probably wouldn’t have applied for the tag knowing that my time would be limited, but is what it is and still had a fun time.

I added up the limited archery tags when they changed, I think it was 8-10k tags if I remember right. I figured it would make a difference in the general units for archery.

Yeah I bet the general units were a little more peaceful like @Hopzone Freak was describing for archery. Bringing down the quotas like @DougStickney said would be the next move, and not allowing guys to fall back on a general archery tag or rifle tag if they put in for special would help as well, make your choice and live with the drawing results, at least on public land.

I hated how they catered to some of my dumber buddies who put a 2nd choice when the regs clearly stated you couldn’t so it kicked them out of the drawing and then FWP added another 10% for those DAs, increasing the pressure in the special units. I was hoping they’d be SOL and I could give them crap the rest of the season lol

 

[WanderWoman]

The spirit of Montana hunting - 365 day pursuit with no critters on public land?

Not quite what I meant but I get your sentiment. More along the attitude of folks I know who liked this because (and only because) they wanted better draw odds and hoped it would discourage residents from further away—who have as much “ownership” of the elk as the “locals”—from applying. Just seemed to punish people in western MT who can’t afford to make a 5-7 hour drive every weekend to hunt. That being said, the rationale concerning ever-increasing popularity of archery/advancing technology does make sense along the lines that something needs to change, like what this reg also seemed to attempt.

 

[Deleted member 53219]

Not quite what I meant but I get your sentiment. More along the attitude of folks I know who liked this because (and only because) they wanted better draw odds and hoped it would discourage residents from further away—who have as much “ownership” of the elk as the “locals”—from applying. Just seemed to punish people in western MT who can’t afford to make a 5-7 hour drive every weekend to hunt. That being said, the rationale concerning ever-increasing popularity of archery/advancing technology does make sense along the lines that something needs to change, like what this reg also seemed to attempt.

Yeah I agree with this, I was hoping to see better draw odds and less Bozeman/Kalispell/Missoula guys running around as a side effect for sure. Not the only reason I liked it, but definitely not a bad result of it either IMO.

 

[nordeast]

Not quite what I meant but I get your sentiment. More along the attitude of folks I know who liked this because (and only because) they wanted better draw odds and hoped it would discourage residents from further away—who have as much “ownership” of the elk as the “locals”—from applying. Just seemed to punish people in western MT who can’t afford to make a 5-7 hour drive every weekend to hunt. That being said, the rationale concerning ever-increasing popularity of archery/advancing technology does make sense along the lines that something needs to change, like what this reg also seemed to attempt.

I guess I don’t see how western MT folks are being punished by this change when they have an abundance of general elk opportunities still available (many of which are quality elk hunting imo). Nobodies being forced to drive 5-7 hours. Kinda echos back to what’s already been said, folks got to have their cake and eat it too for a long time.

 

[bigsky2]

It was nice to think the new regulations were going to help ease the pressure on public in some of these units, but that sure didn't seem to be the case in the units I hunt. As others have mentioned, I did run into some hunters who said they wouldn't apply for a special archery permit again. Unfortunately, there will always be someone in line waiting to replace them. Even if residents don't fill up the quotas, the 10% NR cap goes out the window and NR can buy those leftover permits.

I think the new regs might have even had the opposite effect when it comes to pressure. When we had the 900 permit that allowed you to hunt about 1/3 of the state, hunters could kind of self regulate themselves. Sure, some areas were crowded, but myself and a lot of other hunters can only handle so much pressure before we just go somewhere else. Now that you're forced to hunt a smaller area, hunters can either hunt right alongside the masses, or just call it a season. I was all for breaking up the 900 bundle because I think its better to try to manage on a smaller scale, but when permit quotas are so high that there's 400-500 leftovers for some permits, it defeats the purpose. I was recently talking our local biologist and they said they had been hearing a lot of hunter crowding complaints. When I asked if they planned to set the quota at the lower end of the range going forward, they said unfortunately that's not even an option. If you recall, at the commission meeting last spring, the region 5 commissioner made an amendment to keep the limited permits in place, rather than go to general in all of the over objective units. Ideally, he would have recommended keeping the permits in place and recommending that the department set the permit numbers. Unfortunately, he recommended specific quotas himself and did not give a quota range that would allow some variance in setting quotas from year to year. Now we're stuck with these ridiculous permit numbers. Hopefully if we bitch enough we can get that changed during the next season setting process.

 

[Sioux33]

It was nice to think the new regulations were going to help ease the pressure on public in some of these units, but that sure didn't seem to be the case in the units I hunt. As others have mentioned, I did run into some hunters who said they wouldn't apply for a special archery permit again. Unfortunately, there will always be someone in line waiting to replace them. Even if residents don't fill up the quotas, the 10% NR cap goes out the window and NR can buy those leftover permits.

I think the new regs might have even had the opposite effect when it comes to pressure. When we had the 900 permit that allowed you to hunt about 1/3 of the state, hunters could kind of self regulate themselves. Sure, some areas were crowded, but myself and a lot of other hunters can only handle so much pressure before we just go somewhere else. Now that you're forced to hunt a smaller area, hunters can either hunt right alongside the masses, or just call it a season. I was all for breaking up the 900 bundle because I think its better to try to manage on a smaller scale, but when permit quotas are so high that there's 400-500 leftovers for some permits, it defeats the purpose. I was recently talking our local biologist and they said they had been hearing a lot of hunter crowding complaints. When I asked if they planned to set the quota at the lower end of the range going forward, they said unfortunately that's not even an option. If you recall, at the commission meeting last spring, the region 5 commissioner made an amendment to keep the limited permits in place, rather than go to general in all of the over objective units. Ideally, he would have recommended keeping the permits in place and recommending that the department set the permit numbers. Unfortunately, he recommended specific quotas himself and did not give a quota range that would allow some variance in setting quotas from year to year. Now we're stuck with these ridiculous permit numbers. Hopefully if we bitch enough we can get that changed during the next season setting process.

I hunted one of these limited permit units this year and echo your post. Have been hunting this area for years and it was a zoo compared to prior years because everyone was stuck hunting with the pressure or throwing in the towel.

I too liked the idea of sticking to your unit, but when the commission sets the quotas, rather than the biologists, it doesn't really work as intended. Another microcosm of MT management in general. For crying out loud, in one of the units they allocated 400 tags and there's less than a handful of public access points, so the numbers crunch out to about 100 tags per trailhead and you're stuck there. No thanks.

Most of these units have so little public land and such high quotas, that it's only going to speed up the movement of elk living on private year round. Like you say, maybe if we bitch enough, the commission will actually let the biologists do their job next time around.

 

[WIbiggame]

Most of these units have so little public land and such high quotas, that it's only going to speed up the movement of elk living on private year round.

This was/is most likely the plan. More inaccessible elk and more elk on the outfitted lands.

Like you say, maybe if we bitch enough, the commission will actually let the biologists do their job next time around.

Probably not going to happen bc the commission is doing the job their supporters are paying them to do. See above quoted post for what that job is.