Moisture In Primers? Failure to Ignite

[winmag]

Check firing pin protrusion. Disassemble the bolt, clean it, and change the firing pin spring. Call the primer manufacturer and give them the lot number to see if they've had any issues with that lot. Call the firearm manufacturer and see if they'd had any issues with that lot of rifles. If you still get another misfire then cull them. I know I wouldn't hunt or compete with anything I had less than 100% confidence in.

On a side note, it's difficult to kill primers even by soaking them in oil, much less just moisture from the air. I soaked some in oil for a week and was curious if they were dead so I smacked one with a hammer. POP! Nope!

 

[grizzly63]

What do folks use for a desiccant? in Primer storage containers, anything to absorb the humidity

 

[Tmbrgost]

What do folks use for a desiccant? in Primer storage containers, anything to absorb the humidity

Believe it or not but I have pulled moisture out of primers with rice. Just like a wet cell phone. Found a box in my grand fathers basement with a few primer packages in it that had gotten & we’re still damp. I put them back into the original primer tray and put the tray into a lightly sealed container full of rice for a couple of days. Made sure the rice covered the entire package.

The package was completely dry. I loaded some target loads with them and they all shot fine.

 

[kodiakisland]

What do folks use for a desiccant? in Primer storage containers, anything to absorb the humidity

I just keep them in the house. Finished up a large lot of primers from the 80s earlier this summer and they all worked fine.

 

[Hams42]

Okay i did some measurements and looks like my shoulder was .015" long so I adjusted it back to what it should be. I pulled the firing pin and tried the bolt closing trick. It wouldn't even fall without a piece of brass(very stiff action compared to the B-14 action) but I could close it with my pinky. Cleaned the action again. I'll load somemore rounds and check next week. I'm hoping it was just a brass issue. Time will tell.

What do folks use for a desiccant? in Primer storage containers, anything to absorb the humidity

After the first few primers not going off I grabbed a gearbox with rubber seal and and 5 pack of the desiccant packs from Scheels. I threw 2 in the box and they turned color over night. I pulled those out and put three more in and they haven't changed yet.

 

[El Jason]

A buddy of mine had a pipe break and flooded his reloading room. He had a lot of bricks of primers. He was going to toss them.

I took a brick and shot several hundred rounds without a misfire. I tested vs dry primers and did not note any accuracy variances.

YMMV.

 

[bluegrassdan]

Most primers are sealed with a film coating over the anvil and the pellet. So unless they are kept wet for a long time, they should not absorb a lot of moisture and be affected by humid conditions for the most part. If they readily absorbed moisture, manufacturers would be shrink wrapping the boxes to keep the return claims for failed product down to a minimum.

 

[Hams42]

Alright so I went out and shot last night and had one more fail to ignite. I think I have three theories at this point. Its either the gun doesn't like CCI, something is up with the brass or its the firing pin. So the one that failed to ignite had a very light firing pin strike. I tried to shoot it a couple more times and it just dented the primer. I'm still waiting on a new firing pin and spring from Bergara but in the mean time I'm going to try some Remington primers in the meantime.

 

[Jnasa]

Alright so I went out and shot last night and had one more fail to ignite. I think I have three theories at this point. Its either the gun doesn't like CCI, something is up with the brass or its the firing pin. So the one that failed to ignite had a very light firing pin strike. I tried to shoot it a couple more times and it just dented the primer. I'm still waiting on a new firing pin and spring from Bergara but in the mean time I'm going to try some Remington primers in the meantime.

I’ve never had issues with CCI primers. I’d be surprised if the brand changed anything. If you’ve used these primers in another fun without issue then that shows to me it’s either the gun or something with your brass residing as someone else mentioned.

 

[Hams42]

I’ve never had issues with CCI primers. I’d be surprised if the brand changed anything. If you’ve used these primers in another fun without issue then that shows to me it’s either the gun or something with your brass residing as someone else mentioned.

I have used them in 2 other guns without problems.

 

[El Jason]

Alright so I went out and shot last night and had one more fail to ignite. I think I have three theories at this point. Its either the gun doesn't like CCI, something is up with the brass or its the firing pin. So the one that failed to ignite had a very light firing pin strike. I tried to shoot it a couple more times and it just dented the primer. I'm still waiting on a new firing pin and spring from Bergara but in the mean time I'm going to try some Remington primers in the meantime.

Don’t waste your time with different primers.

It’s either your brass or your firing pin/spring.

 

[Hams42]

Don’t waste your time with different primers.

It’s either your brass or your firing pin/spring.

I should see a new pin and spring in the next few days and I'll switch to a different brass and see.

 

[brymoore]

I guess I’m the only Neanderthal who would have pulled the primer and hit it with a hammer.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Okay i did some measurements and looks like my shoulder was .015" long so I adjusted it back to what it should be. I pulled the firing pin and tried the bolt closing trick. It wouldn't even fall without a piece of brass(very stiff action compared to the B-14 action) but I could close it with my pinky. Cleaned the action again. I'll load somemore rounds and check next week. I'm hoping it was just a brass issue. Time will tell.

Going back to this older post to make sure I understand - If you're having ignition issues due to brass to chamber fit it's because it is sized too much, I.E. it's too short not too long. The way i read this it sounds like you pushed the shoulder back further yet? What respective measurements are you getting at the shoulder datum of fired and sized brass?

If I'm reading the SAAMI print right looking at length to the 0.400" shoulder datum - SAAMI max chamber dimension is 1.640", SAAMI Min Cartridge dimension is 1.627". So the largest gap possible using min spec brass and max spec chamber, you've got 0.013" difference between the two at the shoulder datum. If you're saying you sized the shoulder 0.015", something is out of spec whether it be the brass or your chamber. Seems like your sizing process is not right or you communicated it confusingly.

 

[Hams42]

I guess I’m the only Neanderthal who would have pulled the primer and hit it with a hammer.

Maybe I should.

 

[Hams42]

Going back to this older post to make sure I understand - If you're having ignition issues due to brass to chamber fit it's because it is sized too much, I.E. it's too short not too long. The way i read this it sounds like you pushed the shoulder back further yet? What respective measurements are you getting at the shoulder datum of fired and sized brass?

If I'm reading the SAAMI print right looking at length to the 0.400" shoulder datum - SAAMI max chamber dimension is 1.640", SAAMI Min Cartridge dimension is 1.627". So the largest gap possible using min spec brass and max spec chamber, you've got 0.013" difference between the two at the shoulder datum. If you're saying you sized the shoulder 0.015", something is out of spec whether it be the brass or your chamber. Seems like your sizing process is not right or you communicated it confusingly.

View attachment 379918

It could be that I explained it wrong or that I misunderstood the original reply. My original thinking was that it the case wasn't knocked down some that there would be less distance for the firing pin to travel. Regardless I was needing to size my brass better because I had shot some rather hot loads and the brass stretched.

The two measurements I was going off are highlighted in green.

 

[El Jason]

If you the shoulder back too far (ie size too much) the case has room to move in the chamber and can cause light primer strikes.

 

[Hams42]

If you the shoulder back too far (ie size too much) the case has room to move in the chamber and can cause light primer strikes.

Even before knocking the shoulder back I was having the problem. I have put about 400 rounds through this gun and only 60 have been factory. No issues with the factory ammo but now about 10 failures with hand loading.

 

[El Jason]

I guess you could try different primers. I’ve never had a bad batch.

Confirming you had this issue with two different rifles? Same handloads?

Are you seating the primers slightly below flush? You should be able to feel the slight difference

 

[Wind Gypsy]

It could be that I explained it wrong or that I misunderstood the original reply. My original thinking was that it the case wasn't knocked down some that there would be less distance for the firing pin to travel.

Longer dimension to shoulder = case cant be pushed as far forward off the bolt face by the firing Pin. I think that is what you're saying? Tighter fitting case = more reliable ignition.

Regardless I was needing to size my brass better because I had shot some rather hot loads and the brass stretched.

By size better, you mean less right? Because sizing too much is what leads to the case stretch.

The two measurements I was going off are highlighted in green.

Those are pretty hard measurements to get accurately just based on the radiused nature of them. If you dont have a comparator to put on the shoulder, an empty 9mm case might work to use as reference to know how much you are bumping your shoulders when sizing.

Even before knocking the shoulder back I was having the problem. I have put about 400 rounds through this gun and only 60 have been factory. No issues with the factory ammo but now about 10 failures with hand loading.

My guess, is that the aftermarket brass, sized or not, is shorter to the shoulder datum than the factory ammo. Might be compounded by low FP energy or protrusion and harder to light primers vs what is in the factory ammo but I'd bet case size is a primary cause unless you can provide measurements compared to fired that paints a different picture.

I have heard of more stories of CCI primer duds than other brands but nowhere near the prevalence you're talking. Maybe a handful out of a thousand.