Its all about perspective!

[Uplander]

Im a farmer/rancher in texas who is being forced out by development. We are soon making a move to the missouri river breaks of montana. I read a lot on here about the issues with people shooting “small” 140-150” muley bucks. We have the same issues here and it used to bother me greatly! Ive come to the realization that the problem isnt the “once in a lifetime” guy who shoots an up and coming buck that has tons of potential and the memory stays with him forever. The PROBLEM is the guy who shoots the same class of deer every single year and throws them in a pile in the barn. Its generally the same type of guy who complains about not seeing any GOOD deer! Texas changed a lot when wildlife began being viewed as a resource rather than a nuisance by private landowners and its changed even more since many hunters have begun to embrace management over success. We now have antler restrictions on mule deer in the counties i have property. I know its a source of contention in the west but its made such a dramatic difference on deer quality and quantity here that it cant be ignored. Before, every out of town hunter would leave on closing day with a spike or forky in the bed of the pickup because its just not acceptable for many to pay money and not kill. Those times have changed and its been a blessing for the mule deer. Anyway, i guess my conclusion is not to hate on the guy who takes a 150” deer as HIS deer of a lifetime and is one and done. Hate on the guy who takes the same class of deer EVERY SINGLE YEAR because he cant stand to not kill something.
Thoughts?

 

[antlerradar]

Im a farmer/rancher in texas who is being forced out by development. We are soon making a move to the missouri river breaks of montana. I read a lot on here about the issues with people shooting “small” 140-150” muley bucks. We have the same issues here and it used to bother me greatly! Ive come to the realization that the problem isnt the “once in a lifetime” guy who shoots an up and coming buck that has tons of potential and the memory stays with him forever. The PROBLEM is the guy who shoots the same class of deer every single year and throws them in a pile in the barn. Its generally the same type of guy who complains about not seeing any GOOD deer! Texas changed a lot when wildlife began being viewed as a resource rather than a nuisance by private landowners and its changed even more since many hunters have begun to embrace management over success. We now have antler restrictions on mule deer in the counties i have property. I know its a source of contention in the west but its made such a dramatic difference on deer quality and quantity here that it cant be ignored. Before, every out of town hunter would leave on closing day with a spike or forky in the bed of the pickup because its just not acceptable for many to pay money and not kill. Those times have changed and its been a blessing for the mule deer. Anyway, i guess my conclusion is not to hate on the guy who takes a 150” deer as HIS deer of a lifetime and is one and done. Hate on the guy who takes the same class of deer EVERY SINGLE YEAR because he cant stand to not kill something.
Thoughts?

You are not wrong, Just remember that stuff that works in nearly all private Texas may not work well in Montana where there is a good mixture of private and Public.

 

[Uplander]

You are not wrong, Just remember that stuff that works in nearly all private Texas may not work well in Montana where there is a good mixture of private and Public.

Yes sir, i understand that. With texas being 95-97% private its certainly a different ball game, but it was still up to hunters and landowners to make many of the changes necessary to improve. If we werent such a selfish people in general, it would be much easier to do.

 

[Rack Daniels]

If we werent such a selfish people in general, it would be much easier to do.

While I do agree with the above sentiment; saying you’re from Texas, moving to Montana, and already thinking about how to make potential changes here, may be viewed differently by different folks. One of the biggest qualms i hear is out of towners voting the same way they did in their home state and those changes impact the western way of life… Good luck with the move. The breaks are a cool area. Hope you’re ready for the negative degree winters! Gets damned cold…

 

[Forkyfinder]

Im a farmer/rancher in texas who is being forced out by development. We are soon making a move to the missouri river breaks of montana. I read a lot on here about the issues with people shooting “small” 140-150” muley bucks. We have the same issues here and it used to bother me greatly! Ive come to the realization that the problem isnt the “once in a lifetime” guy who shoots an up and coming buck that has tons of potential and the memory stays with him forever. The PROBLEM is the guy who shoots the same class of deer every single year and throws them in a pile in the barn. Its generally the same type of guy who complains about not seeing any GOOD deer! Texas changed a lot when wildlife began being viewed as a resource rather than a nuisance by private landowners and its changed even more since many hunters have begun to embrace management over success. We now have antler restrictions on mule deer in the counties i have property. I know its a source of contention in the west but its made such a dramatic difference on deer quality and quantity here that it cant be ignored. Before, every out of town hunter would leave on closing day with a spike or forky in the bed of the pickup because its just not acceptable for many to pay money and not kill. Those times have changed and its been a blessing for the mule deer. Anyway, i guess my conclusion is not to hate on the guy who takes a 150” deer as HIS deer of a lifetime and is one and done. Hate on the guy who takes the same class of deer EVERY SINGLE YEAR because he cant stand to not kill something.
Thoughts?

You won't be able to manage much here for quality on your land provided it's a general area. They'll roam through public in November.

A 150" buck will get taken like it's the last chip of a shared bag in a crowded crew cab .

 

[JV842]

You won't be able to manage much here for quality on your land provided it's a general area. They'll roam through public in November.

A 150" buck will get taken like it's the last chip of a shared bag in a crowded crew cab .

I know it’s not Montana; which I do hunt w good friends that r born n bread in the Augusta area, but like my grandfather told me, “if u shoot em, they don’t have no chance”
I mainly hunt on family land in Texas; low fence, various sizes (50-900+acres) we used to shoot (‘70-80’s) any buck that had anything that could be considered a point, in the assumption that if I don’t, the neighbors would. Me n one of my uncles started hunting an area that no one else did n let pretty much everything go for years…yes bucks we knew n watched grow would jump the fence n get shot during the rut but the quality did go up 150”+ whitetails now compared to getting excited over 2 year old bucks.
So it can be done
We do have the problem that the OP has/had, the neighbors that shoot the “nice” bucks every year n throw the antlers on a pile and wonder why they never see a really good buck. It is frustrating when it happens but like my grandfather said, “if I shoot em, they don’t have no chance”

 

[Uplander]

While I do agree with the above sentiment; saying you’re from Texas, moving to Montana, and already thinking about how to make potential changes here, may be viewed differently by different folks. One of the biggest qualms i hear is out of towners voting the same way they did in their home state and those changes impact the western way of life… Good luck with the move. The breaks are a cool area. Hope you’re ready for the negative degree winters! Gets damned cold…

Alerting people to mental changes in their attitudes and expectations that will make something they love more beneficial to them and their heirs is never a bad thing. My greatest fear of the move are the west coast politics that are inundating the western portion of the state. I believe in opportunity AND strong private property rights. I dont believe EVERYONE who wants to kill something should have an opportunity just because they WANT it. the overall health of a viable species should trump that. What i mean by “viable species” is something actually known and utilized by many. We have shut down miles of rivers and other water bodies here to save a minnow nobody has ever seen or heard of. I dont believe in that kind of bureaucracy. I may not be able to manage much on a few thousand acres, but i intend to stock at rates that wont rape the land and i intend to offer the wildlife sanctuaries that allow escape from the type people im referring to just as i do here. Maybe it helps and maybe it doesnt, but its something i CAN do in an effort to improve.

 

[JV842]

Alerting people to mental changes in their attitudes and expectations that will make something they love more beneficial to them and their heirs is never a bad thing. My greatest fear of the move are the west coast politics that are inundating the western portion of the state. I believe in opportunity AND strong private property rights. I dont believe EVERYONE who wants to kill something should have an opportunity just because they WANT it. the overall health of a viable species should trump that. What i mean by “viable species” is something actually known and utilized by many. We have shut down miles of rivers and other water bodies here to save a minnow nobody has ever seen or heard of. I dont believe in that kind of bureaucracy. I may not be able to manage much on a few thousand acres, but i intend to stock at rates that wont rape the land and i intend to offer the wildlife sanctuaries that allow escape from the type people im referring to just as i do here. Maybe it helps and maybe it doesnt, but its something i CAN do in an effort to improve.

I agree with what you’re saying
Here comes the but…..be careful on not letting people taking some of the animals; smaller ones, in limited numbers..ESPECIALLY ones who are just starting out and kids!!! I personally made that mistake with my daughter and regrettably, I lost her as a hunting buddy. I wouldn’t let her shoot some smaller bucks in the name of “conservation or growing the herd” n it turned her off. One of my biggest regrets. I do not do the same w my grandkids. N you know what, after they’re first few they have realized why “papa” doesn’t shoot the first buck he sees and have started doing that on their own accord.
Ultimately remember…..it is supposed to be about having fun too.

 

[Uplander]

I agree with what you’re saying
Here comes the but…..be careful on not letting people taking some of the animals; smaller ones, in limited numbers..ESPECIALLY ones who are just starting out and kids!!! I personally made that mistake with my daughter and regrettably, I lost her as a hunting buddy. I wouldn’t let her shoot some smaller bucks in the name of “conservation or growing the herd” n it turned her off. One of my biggest regrets. I do not do the same w my grandkids. N you know what, after they’re first few they have realized why “papa” doesn’t shoot the first buck he sees and have started doing that on their own accord.
Ultimately remember…..it is supposed to be about having fun too.

Point well taken. Im 50 and my boys are raised. They were both allowed to shoot a dink or two when they started (one boy was 5 the other 6) hunting. After that they were taught the value of patience and the difference between hunting and killing. They are now 24 and 25 and they are just as involved with management as i am. We have created a society of INSTANT gratification and every waking hour entertainment.
If we are passionate about a subject and want to see change but arent willing to start change within ourselves, then the only person who should have to endure the whining and complaining is the guy in the mirror.
What i see “hunting” in the west has devolved to:
“I hunted hard for 3 hours and finally turned up this OLD BRUISER of a WARRIOR who is probably just on the decline. I SMOKED him with my 338 lapua at 832.45 yards. It was a textbook HIGH SHOULDER shot. I was able to gut him and toss him over my shoulder for the pack out because he was so RUN DOWN by the rut. Dont mind the milk on his lips. He was probably drinking out of the Milk river.”
I bow hunted elk for 5 years before i figured some things out amd was able to be successful. I loved every minute of those 4 failed trips and would be reluctant to trade that education for quicker success.

 

[SAJ-99]

The title of the thread was an interesting choice. I think your "perspective" of Montana will quickly be changed.

Ironically, some of the best research on antler growth comes out of Texas, probably because of the private land ownership and ability to fence deer in. You might want to check out the research below. While correct to say "if you shoot em they don't have a chance", the reality is far more complicated than we wish it were.

Antlers by the Numbers - Issuu

Having a clear understanding of the antler potential for your deer herd is essential to establishing management goals and associated culling criteria for your mule deer herd.

issuu.com

 

[Uplander]

The title of the thread was an interesting choice. I think your "perspective" of Montana will quickly be changed.

Ironically, some of the best research on antler growth comes out of Texas, probably because of the private land ownership and ability to fence deer in. You might want to check out the research below. While correct to say "if you shoot em they don't have a chance", the reality is far more complicated than we wish it were.

Antlers by the Numbers - Issuu

Having a clear understanding of the antler potential for your deer herd is essential to establishing management goals and associated culling criteria for your mule deer herd.

issuu.com

My perspective isnt about Montana, its about people who complain but are not willing to change themselves. People will always find a way to justify their choices. SCRIPTURE is the only truth humanity will ever know. We will continue to follow GOD and to be the best stewards and shepherds of our lands and the wildlife to the best of our abilities. Most will continue to shoot the same deer every year and complain about it. I must clarify one thing. We try to shoot an age class of deer and not antlers. Not much else than that to say.

 

[JV842]

The title of the thread was an interesting choice. I think your "perspective" of Montana will quickly be changed.

Ironically, some of the best research on antler growth comes out of Texas, probably because of the private land ownership and ability to fence deer in. You might want to check out the research below. While correct to say "if you shoot em they don't have a chance", the reality is far more complicated than we wish it were.

Antlers by the Numbers - Issuu

Having a clear understanding of the antler potential for your deer herd is essential to establishing management goals and associated culling criteria for your mule deer herd.

issuu.com

Actually helped my parent’s neighbor’s kid w his college thesis on that subject about whitetails while he was working w the TPWD. We would go to Kerr WMA n measure cut antlers from their pinned bucks over each bucks lifetime from a giant test pool. Very interesting stuff…TONS of variables!!