Interesting Article on Elk Herd Decline in SW Colorado

[bisblue]

https://durangoherald.com/articles/250613-where-have-all-the-elk-gone?fbclid=IwAR1oTfGUR9lLEZoeq17PJp6_pBq1QHQwl0qRnC6JB_QDdqdOreRB4AcD_CA

They don't mention some other things like habitat fragmentation, human powered recreation, OHV recreation, etc.... But some interesting things to think about in terms of rut pressure and later breeding seasons. Hadn't heard that before.

Always a little uncomfortable to evaluate something I like to do, if it might have more negative consequences than I thought it did.

Thoughts or other research on the topic?

 

[BrentD]

When the wolves get there, 5 years from now, today's decline will be all their fault...

 

[noharleyyet]

When the wolves get there, 5 years from now, today's decline will be all their fault...

..from comments;

Cloud Walker
Wolves could help
Like · Reply · 1 · 5h

 

[Dinkshooter]

I do believe that the doubling of elk archery hunters since the early 90s has disrupted the timing of the rut a little bit.

But, I also believe a large portion of the problem was way to many cow tags for way to long, lead poisoning

Side note, My one game camera this year had almost more bears and lions on it than elk.

 

[BrentD]

I do believe that the doubling of elk archery hunters since the early 90s has disrupted the timing of the rut a little bit.

The author blamed that on mapping technology - at least the way I read it. I blame it on archery technology. Same thing has happened with muzzleloaders.

 

[Dinkshooter]

In the early 90's it took 3 preference points for the general unit muzzloader tags, these days it takes 0-1 for the most part. Seems they increased those and never looked back.

 

[Jayden12]

The estrus cycle is influenced by last full moon in Sept.So breeding is within the same time period every year.Other biologists have written that elk,unlike deer, do NOT come back in estrous if not bred.So where is this guy coming up with watching Nov breeding?
And another HUGE red flag in this article is when he states that none of calf deaths are due to predators.You mean to tell me that all the pics dinkshooter has of bears and lions that they have no effect.Makes absolutely no sense.Seems like this article was written to put all the blame on bowhunters.Or he's a local that hates all the NR pressure on his area.My state did a huge herd reduction little over 10 years ago.Areas I hunt still haven't recovered,and it's mainly due to bear and coyote mortality on the fawns.The herd has no ability to grow again.If you know survival rates are 35% as written in article, then it would seem to me you need more cows in the herd if you want it to increase.I don't think bowhunters cause any problems to rutting elk.Most breeding is done at night and last I checked it wasn't legal to hunt then
I do think Colorado should put caps on their otc units,like Idaho.With the popularity of elk hunting now,I'd say otc tags are going to be a thing of the past soon

 

[tjones]

When the wolves get there, 5 years from now, today's decline will be all their fault...

20 plus years of wolves in MT and they still get blamed when a hunter catches a cold.

 

[Dinkshooter]

The estrus cycle is influenced by last full moon in Sept.So breeding is within the same time period every year.Other biologists have written that elk,unlike deer, do NOT come back in estrous if not bred.So where is this guy coming up with watching Nov breeding?

I'm no biologist but I've seen some very likely "rutting" behavior in November". A couple years ago I watched a group of bulls mix up with a group of cows on the opener of Colorado 3rd season and I heard more bugles that day than I have heard on the majority of late September days, it was crazy, all day long, non stop. It was annoying...........because I was deer hunting.

 

[Dinkshooter]

When the cows come into estrus (“heat”), the mating begins. A bull elk must be ready — a cow is receptive for mating less than 24 hours. She won’t be willing to mate again until her second estrus cycle arrives in 20 days. Cows can have up to four estrus cycles each season, but most cows become pregnant during the first or second cycle.

From
https://elknetwork.com/elkfacts/

 

[Dinkshooter]

And you cannot discount seeing those uber tiny elk calves you sometime see in the fall, they are about 1/2 the size of the others.

 

[BrentD]

...
And another HUGE red flag in this article is when he states that none of calf deaths are due to predators.You mean to tell me that all the pics dinkshooter has of bears and lions that they have no effect.

I believe what the author was saying is that predators could not explain the INCREASE in calf mortality. That is different than saying predators do not kill elk fawns.

Puzzling problem for sure.

 

[Jayden12]

I've read conflicting studies on wether cows come back in estrous.No doubt a few cows could estrous later then most causing late but activity.But all I've read is one cycle.Im not expert by any means.Seems to make sense as elk are herd animals.With deer,the buck locks down with a single doe for days leaving other hot does not to mate.Guessing that's why they go into additional estrous cycles.But who really knows for sure if it's a cow having a later then normal estrous or going into estrous a 2nd or 3rd time.
Personally,any herd that's in decline should have cow licenses drastically cut.Thats a hunters opinion.A rancher would have a much different one.Game and fish have to figure out how to keep both happy

 

[Jayden12]

I understand what the author was trying to say.But what I'm saying is if you have less calves available to predators their mortality rate will certainly increase.
One interesting part was that only 20% of the cows had calves.If cows went into more then one estrous certainly that percentage should be higher.Theres a 2 week break in between archery and first rifle during peak rut so not sure how bowhunters could be blamed

 

[BigHornRam]

First gloom and doom article I've viewed in a long time that didn't blame global warming.

 

[JMG]

My understanding has been that the elk estrus cycle was triggered by the angle of the sunlight hitting the back of the retina in the eye of the cow elk. This typically was around the Fall Equinox (this year was September 22nd). So, you could always think of the elk rut being in the middle of September. There also happens to be a full moon in mid to late September (typically). I agree that most of the cow elk are bred at night in the light of the moon.
Another way of thinking of it, is most calves are born the same time every year ... if you do the math backwards considering the gestation period of an elk (240 to 262 days) ... the elk are bred roughly the same time every year regardless the “rutting activity”. I hear a lot where folks say the rut is not on, because the bulls are not bugling ... they’re breeding, but they’re just not being vocal.

 

[tjones]

One interesting part was that only 20% of the cows had calves.

In Montana the Lobo Watch, wolf haters would say the wolves disrupt the breeding by harassing the bulls and cows. Fact is new born calves die from a whole lot of things.

 

[BWALKER77]

The author blamed that on mapping technology - at least the way I read it. I blame it on archery technology. Same thing has happened with muzzleloaders.

No doubt some blame lies there.
Archery seasons are much too liberal in many areas/states. Especially when you factor in the numbers of animals wounded.

 

[Sytes]

In Montana the Lobo Watch, wolf haters would say the wolves disrupt the breeding by harassing the bulls and cows. Fact is new born calves die from a whole lot of things.

Speaking of Montana, fact is, now they are disrupted by wolves to a new level. Without the ability to regulate the wolves numbers, effectively - it will continue to adversely impact the elk / calf ratio exponentially.

 

[tjones]

Speaking of Montana, fact is, now they are disrupted by wolves to a new level. Without the ability to regulate the wolves numbers, effectively - it will continue to adversely impact the elk / calf ratio exponentially.

Studies show other factors effecting pregnancy rates, mainly body fat. But lets not let science interfere with hysteria. There are plenty of wolves in both the east fork and west fork.


See page 34.

fwp.mt.gov/fwpDoc.html?id=73152