Simple enough........this is all about access and lack their of it due to the "bad outfitter".
MTMiller, that is the first time that I have ever seen you whine about anything when you were talking about BMA getting tied up by outfitters. The reason that the BMA land is disappearing in our country is because the Game & Fish treated them like dirt and they got tired of having their place decimated with too many hunters.
If this ever gets passed it will not open up any more ground to you fags that think that you should be granted access any where any time.........it is not going to happen. When they shut the BMA program down because they can no longer fund it, that ground will become locked up as well and if you think in a million years that the ground that is tied up by outfitters will open up then you need to put down your crack pipes because that will never happen either.
THIS IS AN ACCESS ISSUE AND NOTHING MORE!!!!
The guided hunter brings in way more money to the state than any DIY hunter does. It may not get spent directly from their pocket to the grocery store owners pocket, but it does go from the outfitters or guides pocket to the grocery store owners pocket or the tire store owners pocket and so on. Maybe they even buy insurance from NeMont once in a while or throw some spare change in Greenhorns guitar case.
It is about someone being pissed off because they cannot get on to private land to shoot their 'publicly owned game animals", don't kid yourselves, nothing more nothing less. If they were to get this done, the next thing would be to make it mandatory for all landowners to kick their gates open.
I have never seen such a bunch of whiney "BITCHES" in my life.
Shooter:
So many times we have this discussion, and the same points are always disputed. Is it an access issue - YES, for the reason that the state has vested less than 400 businesses (Outfitters) with the economic power to go out and buy access on a market that is now titled in their favor, due to the subsidy they receive. As a result, they have made it an access issue.
All residents are asking is to get rid of the subsidy and let the access issue work itself out, absent the handouts represented by the guaranteed tags. Make the playing field level by not giving these outfitters the huge economic advantage that allows them to go out and buy this access, with almost no risk that the investment in access will be lost.
It became an access issue in the late 1990's, when the outfitting industry went from some good old Montana boys, who I think sincerely intended to keep their promise to not go on a leasing binge. In short order, outfitting in Montana become a much more sophisticated business model, due to the dollars at stake, and larger commercial operators, many of whom are out of state operators, displaced the long-time Montana outfitter who had done this for some extra money.
These new arrivals were not part of the negotiation where resident hunters agreed to "helping keep the outfitting industry viable" by allowing the guaranteed tags, in exchange for the outfitting industry not leasing up the state, which we all feared would happen. Since these new outfitters were not part of the two years of negotiations that occurred, they couldn't care less what was negotiated at that time. Resident hunters were involved in that negotiation, and are upset that they have been burned by the industry they offered to help.
You comment as though all of this occurred in a vacuum. Not hardly. I attended most every one of those meetings, and was quite involved in the sportsman's side of the discussions. That does not make my opinion any more valuable than others, but I think it is important to consider the historical perspective in which this issue has unfolded.
I think it would be helpful if you addressed Nemont's point - that being, "Why is it that the outfitting industry is so worried about removing this government subsidy and having to compete in an open market like the rest of us business owners?" You always ignore that point when these discussions come up.
I don't expect anyone to open their private property to hunting, unless they want to. I don't really care if they keep it closed, as it is already closed to most resident hunters anyhow. And, if residents should be willing to pay more for the access provided in the BMP, or it will probably go away. We had hunting in MT before the BMP, and I am sure we will have hunting after any changes to the outfitter guarantee.
Talk about putting something in your pipe and smoking it. That would be the pack of lies MOGA feeds about being the economic salvation to rural Montana. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am in Broadus this week, and it is like a ghost town, compared to what it was before outfitter guaranteed tags passed. Ask these business owners, the motel owners, restaurants, gas stations, etc. whether their business has improved with this government subsidy program. As a CPA who handles the financial and tax aspects of some of these businesses, I can tell you it has declined. Yes, hunting season is still a good business cycle for them, but not nearly what it was pre-outfitter tags.
And for you to think that most of that money ends up in the hands of local business people is another falacy. Look at how many of those outfitters are based outside of rural Montana, such as Bozeman, Billings, and more importantly, out of state. Do you think the profits of the Bozeman outfitter sit in the bank in Forsyth, then get spent all over Rosebud County? Not hardly. They sit in a bank in Bozeman and are spent on a lot of other stuff, not part of the Rosebud County economy. And for the out of state operator, I suspect very little of it gets spent in Montana, at all.
We have had this discussion so many times. We never change the other's mind. And, I suspect that will not happen as a result of this.
Let's just agree that in a great country like the USA, we should do all we can to eliminate situations where one group is be given a government subsidy to use to the detriment of the citizens. Yes?
If people that sling mud only realized, to discuss w/o the crap talk helps those keep an open mind to consider the other's opinion. Without such all we are here are keyboard chest thumpers getting a "high five" from our "buddies" on laying the smack down - vs discussing the issue.
~ To each their own.
