Sulutrian points are 22,000 years old. Predating Asian migration. The oldest points are on the eastern part of the continent. Potentially throwing off the who was here first idea. Which logically could affect conservation agreements.
Idaho won't recognize Record book Ram killed by Tribal Hunter
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renello
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What doesn't sit right with me on this is the use of modern firearms and other technology on a traditional hunt. Even hunting at night with spotlights and shooting from vehicles which has been upheld in many parts of Canada as a traditional practice. This seems ridiculous to me, there have even been multiple shooting deaths because of this practice. Moose in winter yards have been slaughtered whole sale, same as elk in many cases and their are a few "trophy" hunting natives who take multiple big game animals in seasons and areas closed to regular seasons. It is tough to manage your game animals and fish populations when you have a large unregulated segment that is growing.
AvidIndoorsman
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Seriously?
So let me get this straight... 550 or so generations ago or 11x the distance in time between now and Jesus the fact a group of humans crossed over from Europe to North America means that the ancestors of that group don't have standing in a treaty written 150 years ago. Situation using the current paradigm; treaty between two groups of humans who share a common ancestor 40,000 years ago, Solutrean paradigm: treaty between two groups of humans who share a common ancestor 20,000 years ago.
Are we seriously suggesting that a group of people who hunted mastodons is part of a conversation regarding people whose grand parents or great grand parents made an agreement with the US government.... it's even possible there is someone alive on the Rez whose parents were around when the treaty was written. The amount of time between the Pilgrims arriving in Plymouth and this signing of these treaties is almost twice the distance in time from the signing of these treaties and now.
Academically speaking the Solutrean hypothesis is fascinating but it's relevance is limited to academia.
Scott85
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Everybody needs boogieman I guess.
Irrelevant
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Let's back off on the surety of those statements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis
The single site hasn't even been proven yet.
idahohuntr
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To be fair, I would say there are a lot of rams visible in Hells Canyon and many that don't appear to have much fear of humans...including Unit 11 which is open to State hunters. But again, the Tribal hunter was perfectly legal so any groups or individuals that want to discredit his particular harvest should also disavow any trophy ram killed by hunters who purchase tags that provide seasons and opportunities not available to the general public...and I'm sure many do...but if groups and individuals are fine with auctioning a governors sheep tag and entering such a harvest in record books...it would be hypocritical in my view to not support this Tribal hunter entering his record ram.
While you or I may not be allowed to hunt Nez Perce lands...they still have done more to protect sheep than Idaho's political 'leaders' who have done about everything in their power to ensure those nuisance wild sheep don't effect the domestic livestock industry in any way.
375H&H
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It appears auction tag holders are funding research and transplants of desert bighorns in California and tag allocations have doubled...surely something good like this happens in other states due to auction tags?
D
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idelkslayer
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Politicians be damned; I would counter that the Nez Perce tribe has not done more for Bighorn Sheep conservation than the Idaho Department of Fish and Game or the Rocky Mountain Sheep Foundation. Fact is that the Tribe and IDFG have a long history of collaboration and cooperation. They have accomplished a lot together and will continue to do so.
The way I see it, the guy has a right to hunt and kill bighorns. I will not dispute that. I also think it is hard to justify bighorn sheep hunting as a subsistence hunt, especially when the target is mature rams.
I have a whole rant on tribal hunting rights being retained when in 1924 the tribes gained US citizenship and voting rights (although in some states they didn't get voting rights until the 1960's). I think that by receiving citizenship and the right to vote, they should have in exchange surrendered any other separate rights retained by treaty. I don't think they should be able to have it both ways.
Finally I don't care whether any record book accepts or denies his ram and if I were him I wouldn't care either. Idaho has set it's standard that to qualify, an animal has to be taken in an open hunt in accordance with state regulations. That didn't happen in this case.
Doing it like Utah does it with their convention tags is wrong. They are directly taking opportunity away from you and I. It demonstratively affects the amount of opportunity available to us.
There’s nothing wrong with one auction and one raffle tag per state. It takes away no opportunity and raises a lot of money.
Between the two, states like Montana raise well over $300k a year for bighorn conservation.
Bighorn populations haven’t tripled in 50 years on their own or by you buying your bonus point or me a $125 sheep tag.
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If one auction tag is good why isn’t two better? After all the money goes to a good cause. Why not just auction them all off. More money for a good cause.
Just my opinion. We haven’t begun to measure the long term cost of the disenfranchisement of hunters that auction tags and their ilk have accomplished. In the end they will be counted as mistake, and done more harm then good.
Just my opinion. We haven’t begun to measure the long term cost of the disenfranchisement of hunters that auction tags and their ilk have accomplished. In the end they will be counted as mistake, and done more harm then good.
BrentD
Well-known member
How much of the auction money makes it to the field project? Anyone know?
That’s a pretty broad question Brent. It would depend on the state. The state agencies typically get 90% of the auction revenue. For years California got 100%.
Now, whether these states all use that money, or any of our money they get through any other means appropriately at all times is probably a bigger topic.
I believe WSF has agreements with some states that have criteria how they’ll spend the funds. For example, some jackasses on the SD game agency’s commission this year tried to divert the sheep auction money to pheasant(non native bird) habitat improvement. That was scuffed out pretty fast.
I’m not sure the unlimited units in Montana would even exist without the auction tag funding for all the flights, studies, surveys etc.
Those opportunities have provided thousands of days of opportunity for regular people to hunt sheep. Around 100 days just for myself.
Didn’t it also pay for the sun river relocations to the breaks?
The ADBSS has built dozens of water sources in the desert with AZ auction and raffle funds.
They completed a new one about 30 miles from me last month with that money. And another one in the Chocolate Mountains by the Yuma Proving grounds and another in the Strip.
I think SFW’s convention where they have literally dozens of tags taken out of the public pool or the way NM hands out tags for public lands to private land owners is a real problem that disenfranchises people.
If you want to be disenfranchised by someone else’s wealth, go to Scottsdale and see the old fat bald guy valeting his Maclaren with his 20 year old supermodel girlfriend.
Now, whether these states all use that money, or any of our money they get through any other means appropriately at all times is probably a bigger topic.
I believe WSF has agreements with some states that have criteria how they’ll spend the funds. For example, some jackasses on the SD game agency’s commission this year tried to divert the sheep auction money to pheasant(non native bird) habitat improvement. That was scuffed out pretty fast.
I’m not sure the unlimited units in Montana would even exist without the auction tag funding for all the flights, studies, surveys etc.
Those opportunities have provided thousands of days of opportunity for regular people to hunt sheep. Around 100 days just for myself.
Didn’t it also pay for the sun river relocations to the breaks?
The ADBSS has built dozens of water sources in the desert with AZ auction and raffle funds.
They completed a new one about 30 miles from me last month with that money. And another one in the Chocolate Mountains by the Yuma Proving grounds and another in the Strip.
I think SFW’s convention where they have literally dozens of tags taken out of the public pool or the way NM hands out tags for public lands to private land owners is a real problem that disenfranchises people.
If you want to be disenfranchised by someone else’s wealth, go to Scottsdale and see the old fat bald guy valeting his Maclaren with his 20 year old supermodel girlfriend.
BrentD
Well-known member
I was just wondering. Lots of charities get very little of the money they collect to the actual problem they are supposed to address. Auction tags are a lot like a charity donation.
United Way for example.
BrentD
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zactly
Pucky Freak
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The ram can be recorded in a Nez Perce game record book, if such a thing exists, for all I care.
If you were a tribe member, would you pass on taking advantage of access to kill 9 trophy rams? If it were me I'd find a way to hunt it without pissing off thousands of people, but that's just me.
B&C entries help document successful conservation of a species in particular locations. To this end, I'm glad B&C recognized this animal. Big Fin touches on this in the segment linked below.
05:18-08:16
If you were a tribe member, would you pass on taking advantage of access to kill 9 trophy rams? If it were me I'd find a way to hunt it without pissing off thousands of people, but that's just me.
B&C entries help document successful conservation of a species in particular locations. To this end, I'm glad B&C recognized this animal. Big Fin touches on this in the segment linked below.
05:18-08:16
Dinkshooter
Well-known member
Well, everyone knows just how connected to the environment the natives were, in the circle of life and all.
Never waste a thing and totally respect the game.
https://allaboutbison.com/buffalo-jumps/
Anyone who says they wouldn't take or buy (if able to afford) a state wide tag is frankly full of shiznit.
I'm still sad for the crying Indian.
Never waste a thing and totally respect the game.
https://allaboutbison.com/buffalo-jumps/
Anyone who says they wouldn't take or buy (if able to afford) a state wide tag is frankly full of shiznit.
I'm still sad for the crying Indian.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Here's a good write up on work funded by auction tag and accompanying Pittman Robinson funds in Montana.
MSU, FWP collaborate on bighorn sheep project
BOZEMAN – Carson Butler and Jesse DeVoe once sat still as stones while bighorn sheep grazed within 20 feet of them for an hour. Another time, DeVoe watched a golden
The Painted Rocks herd was established with 2 trap and transplants that were paid for with auction tag funds and a lot of volunteer help. Without those funds and help, it would not have happened. We now have a stable bighorn herd that produces 2 to 3 sheep tags every year.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
And little background on the record $480,000 bid and shenanigans that followed.
www.spokesman.com
Record $480K bid for bighorn sheep tag -- the rest of the story
HUNTING -- The secrecy protecting deep-pocket bidders at trophy big-game hunting tag auctions mysteriously stepped up around 2013 after the record bid was made for a bighorn sheep tag. A February New York Times story -- well worth reading -- on bighorn sheep hunting and...
www.spokesman.com
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