Idaho or Colorado

[Duck-Slayer]

this is my opinion and take it with a grain of salt, I think if you can't harvest at least a 100 cows out of every zone there is something wrong in that unit and needs too be fixed, they also need too readdress where all the F&g money is going and put more into where it needs too be and that's the survey of the Idaho's game populations and then distribute moneys from there, isn't that the whole point of the F&G is too manage our game populations which includes poaching... thats off the topic though....

I think if you get off the beaten path either in Idaho or colorado you will find elk, that being said I've been hunting (archery) for 10 years and yet too shoot an elk, but I also have many other species that I pay more attention too, but I will say the sightings of elk have gone down since about 2004 or so, and I do the backpack thing, don't get me wrong i've been close more times than I can count but never got that broadside shot at 20 yards i was looking for, and i'm sure not going too pack out a cow when I got 2 deer 2 or more antelope and lots of ducks and geese in the freezer.... so i've been horn hunting so that take my odds of harvesting down even more, I will say most of the places I hunt you may hear 2-3 bugles a day and hardly any of those respond, last year I saw probably 25 elk in 6 days, saw a couple everyday, but they are scared sh!tless and are only in maybe herds of 6 or less... its hard hunting but I think Idaho would be a great option, I have never hunted colorado or I would give my input.... :W:
Matt

 

[IdahoHombre]

i would think your logic would be true but f&g dosent. what I am saying is 36a2 had 650 tags in 2007 now in 2012 they still claim 36a2 is at or above population objectives but have cut the tags to 0. If it is currently at objective I would think it would support some cow hunt wouldn't you?

Unit 36A is one of my favorites, so I'm agreeable to looking at its story! (In fact, I applied for the controlled bull hunt there).

IF&G's strategy in the last decade has been to drastically reduce the cow population there. The objective for cows has been, and still is today, to maintain 1,050 - 1,550 cows in 36A. In 2004, there were 1,901. So they went very liberal with the cow hunts. And the objectives are set for particular reasons - in this case, they wanted to reduce competition for feed with the mule deer in order to maintain the unit as a good mule deer hunting place. And there's a limit to how much the farmers and ranchers will take when it comes to letting the elk population run wild. Though controlled cow hunts are gone, we still have the B-Tag that lets us hunt them around cultivated fields in the early season.

Once the cow population got down to the top end of objective, as was seen in the 2008 population survey, when they counted 1,346 cows, they lowered the controlled cow hunts to 200 tags in '08 (Hunt Area 36A-2). No population surveys have been conducted since, but anecdotal evidence suggested that the population was declining, due at least in some significant amount to wolves, I suspect. So in '09 they dropped 36A-2's hunts to 25. And in '10 there were 25. Correct me if I'm wrong on those numbers. They want to maintain the cow herd to within that objective, so they've since seized the controlled cow hunts.

By the way, they were going to do a population survey this last winter, but called it off due to a lack of snow.

Likewise, they dropped the spike-only portion of the general season tag in 2009 when they saw bull to cow ratios starting to drop. Of course, they manage 36A as a trophy hunt, so the bull to cow ratios weren't getting anywhere near horrible when you compare them to other zones that are managed more normally.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is a story behind each unit. They manage the elk herds in such a way that they are able to sustain themselves in balance with the habitat carrying capacity, the predation factors, and how much of them the farmers can stand. And they've been able to let hunters manage the herds in the last decade with very liberal cow hunts. I think that's a good way of managing game - let the hunters do it.

But then once you get them where you want them, and then you feel like the population is dropping further, and it's not because of hunters, then the hunts are restricted further (especially if it's predation). What do you want them to do? Lie? Their objectives have stayed the same for years. Do you want them to say the elk herd is going all to heck when it's not, they're just being cautious - not wanting it to go below objective?

My impression is that you're looking at the numbers, crunching the data, and coming to conclusions that don't necessarily follow. There's reading between the lines, and each elk zone and unit has its own story of what's going on.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Unit 36A is one of my favorites, so I'm agreeable to looking at its story! (In fact, I applied for the controlled bull hunt there).

IF&G's strategy in the last decade has been to drastically reduce the cow population there. The objective for cows has been, and still is today, to maintain 1,050 - 1,550 cows in 36A. In 2004, there were 1,901. So they went very liberal with the cow hunts. And the objectives are set for particular reasons - in this case, they wanted to reduce competition for feed with the mule deer in order to maintain the unit as a good mule deer hunting place. And there's a limit to how much the farmers and ranchers will take when it comes to letting the elk population run wild. Though controlled cow hunts are gone, we still have the B-Tag that lets us hunt them around cultivated fields in the early season.u

Once the cow population got down to the top end of objective, as was seen in the 2008 population survey, when they counted 1,346 cows, they lowered the controlled cow hunts to 200 tags in '08 (Hunt Area 36A-2). No population surveys have been conducted since, but anecdotal evidence suggested that the population was declining, due at least in some significant amount to wolves, I suspect. So in '09 they dropped 36A-2's hunts to 25. And in '10 there were 25. Correct me if I'm wrong on those numbers. They want to maintain the cow herd to within that objective, so they've since seized the controlled cow hunts.

By the way, they were going to do a population survey this last winter, but called it off due to a lack of snow.

Likewise, they dropped the spike-only portion of the general season tag in 2009 when they saw bull to cow ratios starting to drop. Of course, they manage 36A as a trophy hunt, so the bull to cow ratios weren't getting anywhere near horrible when you compare them to other zones that are managed more normally.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is a story behind each unit. They manage the elk herds in such a way that they are able to sustain themselves in balance with the habitat carrying capacity, the predation factors, and how much of them the farmers can stand. And they've been able to let hunters manage the herds in the last decade with very liberal cow hunts. I think that's a good way of managing game - let the hunters do it.

But then once you get them where you want them, and then you feel like the population is dropping further, and it's not because of hunters, then the hunts are restricted further (especially if it's predation). What do you want them to do? Lie? Their objectives have stayed the same for years. Do you want them to say the elk herd is going all to heck when it's not, they're just being cautious - not wanting it to go below objective?

My impression is that you're looking at the numbers, crunching the data, and coming to conclusions that don't necessarily follow. There's reading between the lines, and each elk zone and unit has its own story of what's going on.

You have a very valid point but I think it played into my point somewhere the population dropped to an un huntable level in a bunch of units but f&g is still bragging in the regs about all of these units that are at or above objectives. Its deceiving to out of state hunters and I think its on purpose. Unit 38 is at or above objectives why say that its not a lie but its painting an untruth they are doing this on purpose. Fun discussion though thanks.

 

[Blacktailbc]

Dude. Just go to Colorado. Pick a unit in western coloardo, like say 62, and go hunting. You won't regret it. I would favor Colorado 10 to 1 over Idaho.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Maybe Idaho should put a map showing as up to date as possible population trends in the regs instead that would tell the tale.

 

[IdahoHombre]

Elkmagnet - you make very valid points as well, and these are the kind of conversations Idaho sportsmen need to have. Thanks.