I Need Some Honest Opinions

[Deleted member 20812]

The thought of shooting a calf will break my heart.

Why? They are more likely to die during a hard winter, and they dynamics of shooting calves is already factored into hunter harvest.

 

[270elk]

A couple of more options: First, I'm in the same boat at 69 I will not be packing out a bull elk. I also live in Colorado and elk hunting is my favorite hobby. There are two electric assist game carts made in Utah that can carry a lot of elk meat. You can't use them in the wilderness area but they are much cheaper than pack animals. They are essentially a wheel barrow with an electric motor for up hills and a hand break for down hills. One is called a "pack-wheel" the other is called a honey badger. I also made the decision to utilize help to get the animals out. I want to continue hunting and the help shows up after the hunting is over. Just my thoughts.

 

[idelkslayer]

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a calf given the parameters you have outlined.

 

[SgtTanner]

Easily one of the best threads I’ve read. We all age and our abilities change. This is part of life and I’m happy to see our community handling it with grace and a level head.

For the OP: no one will judge you whatever you decide. It’s clear from your posts you won’t be doing anything illegal - you obviously have a strong set of values that seem to dictate a higher standard than the legal standards. If you can keep getting out there, find the method/manner that works for you. I hope I’m grappling with this issue when I’m your age. You’ve got my respect.

 

[elkduds]

Threads like this are a big reason HT stays relevant and engaging. Ethics are individual, and have much to do with personal values. Open discussion of ethics is essential, that is how people learn them. I struggle w the same calf question, because of my own ethics and values. 40 years ago I was young and hungry, and any game was meat in the freezer. What I have seen since then has clarified for me that animals have family bonds, especially mothers and their young. Herd animals evolved to communicate, cooperate and interdepend. By default that includes emotional bonding.

As hunters we are killing, for food or sport, smart animals that are the result of the same evolution that made dogs from wolves. We evolved emotions to make us cooperative, and compassion resulted. Which leaves some of us reluctant to interfere with the care of an animal mother, or the animal child that mother has nurtured. Yet hunters are predators, killing game to manage their populations. Ungulates evolved with predators taking the young and the ill more often that the healthy breeders that sustain herds. That is part of the logic of game managers endorsing taking immature animals. If you shoot a mature cow or doe, there are 2 less animals in the herd the following summer.

That is a lot to consider when your crosshairs shift back and forth between a calf and a larger cow. Probably better to have decided which you will choose in advance of that moment. Rationally, shooting a calf makes evolutionary, predatory sense. What would wolves, a lion or a bear do? No question a calf is easier to pack out, if the predator prefers. Emotionally, we may come up against our feeling, values, ethics. That certainly is worth talking about.

 

[RemingtonRules]

Man, I hate to keep doing this. I won't hunt private land. Believe me, guys. I've thought of all the options for me. It's hunt for a calf or retire from elk hunting. That would hurt.

If I retire from elk hunting I have two options left. A buck or bear. I could hunt for bear every year and a buck about every other year. Since the buck and bear have overlapping seasons. I could hunt for both on the years I get a buck tag and just bear on the years I can't get the buck tag.

That doesn't sound too bad. At least i'd be hunting every year. Maybe that's a better option than hunting for an elk calf. Damn! The thought of shooting a calf will break my heart.

I'm sorry guys. I should have worked this out before starting this thread. Although , talking about it has really helped me work it out.

Ok, my elk hunting is done. Just bucks and boars from now on.

Thanks, guys.

Hunt what you can on an annual basis. You don't have the years to give to wait. Nothing wrong with shooting what you can handle. You have gone the trophy route. Not it is time to merge to just enjoying the hunt.

 

[SAJ-99]

There are a lot of good suggestions. My similar thoughts...
1 Getting old sucks.
2 Having a "set of rules" is great, but they need to be flexible enough to change with your abilities.
3 you have to determine what you value most - the meat, your rules, the experience, etc.
4 Ever try hunting with a camera? The experience is the same and the pack out is easier.

 

[Western Traveler1]

There are a lot of good suggestions. My similar thoughts...

1. Getting old sucks.

Not when one considers the options. As long as we keep celebrating birthdays we are winning. Many won’t make it to our age!

I’m in my 70’s. I used to spend a lot of time with an old cattle rancher each Fall. He and others used to say shoot a cow or a calf, “You can’t eat the horns”
I admit I was surprised the first time I saw a calf hanging in the barn, but dang it was bigger than I expected and they eat good.
I intend to hunt big game for as long as I can and it is often alone, but I know I have to adapt to the changing conditions presented or it is over and I’m not ready for it to be over.
BTW, elkduds touched on something that is more apparent to me now than ever. That animal bond that I as a hunter can break.

 

[devon deer]

Sounds to me like you already knew what you were going to do before posting the thread, I applaud you for sticking to your own rules, but age catches up with everyone, I say, hunt smart!

As for cow's and calves.
I can only relate to my hunting in the UK, (no tags required, shoot what and how many deer as you like) our season on the female deer starts on November the 1st, the does/hinds will still have the youngsters in tow, most will be independent, but if the females had been 'covered' late by the buck/stag the offspring will still dependent on their mothers.
So, shoot the female and the youngster will struggle to survive through the winter, shoot the youngster and a lactating female might get mastitis and die.
Unless I have to I leave shooting the females until 1st December, but if the farmer insists I start on the 1st November I will, then I shoot the female first, the youngster will hang around 99% of the time, and I shoot it as well, not something I like to do, but the upside, the do taste very nice!

Cheers

Richard

 

[Mallardsx2]

In the big scheme of things Bulls are not much bigger than cows. The argument seems a bit ridiculous.

 

[kmott]

A little background first. I'll turn 77 in Dec. I've hunted Colorado almost every year since the mid-'50s for elk, muley's, and bear. Mostly for elk. I started to hunt as a youngster with my dad and brother. I lost them both in the '80s. I've hunted alone since then. As a still hunter, I prefer to hunt alone. It just works better. It's hard enough to sneak up on the game but almost impossible to do with two hunters together.

For most of the years, i'd only hunt for bulls and bucks. I left the girls alone. As I got older I had to switch to cows but stayed with bucks. The struggle to get the meat out from a bull became too much at my age. So, as time went by the cows I shot got smaller. I try to be an ethical hunter and won't shoot any game I can't get the meat out and do it fast enough to keep it fresh.

So, now to my question for you guys. With more and more old man problems every year a cow has become too much for me. I have two choices. Just hunt for muley bucks or hunt for a calf elk. It's hard for me to even type out the word calf. For someone who for decades would only shoot a bull. It's really hard to even consider shooting a calf. I called up the DOW about this and got an answer that shocked me. He told me they prefer I shoot a calf over a cow. He said it was better for herd control. With that out of the way, my next concern is what other hunters think about it. My options are, shoot a calf or retire from elk hunting. I figure a calf and muley buck are about the same size which means about the same amount of meat. I can get the antlerless elk tag every year in muzzleloader season. I can't do that with the buck tag, so if I went with just hunting for bucks it would be every year. Hard to take not hunting at all for a season.

This is a decision i'm having a hard time making. What do you guys think?

unfortunately ,age gets us all. when it does we must adapt to doing what we can. hunting a calf is better then sitting at home waiting for the sweet release of death. git-r-dun!

 

[Muley_Stalker]

What a great forum. I'm blown away with all your posts. I'm humbled.

To help you all understand better i'm going to talk about something i've always kept to myself. My rules are not really my own. They come from my dad and he got them from his dad. Dad taught me and my brother to still hunt and all the rules to go that. I never fought the rules because I thought they were all good. Some would think they're too strict but never bothered me as long as I believed in them. My brother felt the same way. We wanted to please our dad and never broke any of the rules. I believed in them so much that I stayed with them all my life. The list of rules is very long and I won't discuss them but I wanted you all to know why I stay with them.

With that said. Dad did have to make a compromise. As he got older me and my brother started to take out the meat from the game he shot. He fought it hard but we wouldn't take no for an answer. He would still take out some like the backstraps but i'd always grab the quarters. So, in a way he did accept help. My brother never made it to old age and I always wonder how he would be at my age.

So, i've decided to make a compromise and accept some help. I prefer to do that than shoot a calf. My best friend is a full blooded Lakota Indian. He's been offering to help me for years but I always said no. He only hunts for elk and uses a self made longbow. In Colorado the muzzleloader season is mid Sept. The archery season is the whole month of Sept. So, we can hunt together. Not really together as we're both still hunters and that's a solo method. We can go and come to the hunt together and if I get a kill he can help me get it out. I'll help him with a kill too. At least as much as I can. I'll stay with an adult cow. The meat will last me a whole year and it's much easier to get the tag. I can get it every year in the draw with no points. I have to make sure we both get the same unit to hunt or this plan won't work. His tag is either sex but I have to choose what sex I want to hunt. A bull tag for the unit I want if only a 50% chance for success. I can't take the chance. An adult cow will be fine.

Thanks again, guys. You all helped me make this decision and I feel pretty good about it. I think dad is pleased too.

 

[elkduds]

Elkstalker, your last post shines a bright light on how we learn our ethics. Well said.