While I took the first two shots, I'm not convinced they had any positive effect. I know I still got what seemed to be a bad case of the flu during the pandemic. It's the negative effects of the shots that concern me most. I found out recently I have slow growth prostate cancer, the first person I know of in my family to have it. Thankfully, it's Gleason 6 which is considered low risk, with some in the medical community saying it's not cancer in its true form.
How do you now feel about all those COVID restrictions?
- Thread starter Richard22
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This is how the covid insanity happened! What does politics have to do with covid shots and masks???
That is a nice picture. Sorry for your loss.
Bluffgruff
Well-known member
If everyone would have worn a mask and gotten vaccinated when able, it probably would have been less severe. As Americans, we got lucky with Omicron effectively vaccinating the whole population in 2022. If the next pandemic virus is more virulent, we won't be so lucky.
We didn't do nearly as well as other wealthy countries because of the backlash against best scientific practice.
Edit: This article introduced me to a new term, "political determinants of health."
We didn't do nearly as well as other wealthy countries because of the backlash against best scientific practice.
Edit: This article introduced me to a new term, "political determinants of health."
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Nick87
Well-known member
With all that went on during that time period, I wouldn't question anybody who got vaccinated or wore a mask. However I wouldn't question anyone who had serious doubts about the whole thing either.
RealMuddyboots
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I have zero problem when actual science is utilized to protect us. A mask is not a respirator. And yes, I spoke out immediately. False sense of security. A cloth mask from Etsy cannot prevent exposure to <10 micron respirable particle. Nor a viral sub-micron respirable particle. This is science. Respirators were actually handed out without any concerns to medical and administrative requirements to wear one. It's the user's right to know and decided accordingly. This is not a bonafide triage decision to ignore this requirement.
There was huge opportunity to change how we could respond to a pandemic with true science and engineering. There was and still is IMO a complete failure for ALL our Agencies to combine their talents to protect us better. If anyone attacks the USA, every branch responds as united front. A pandemic response does not unite our agencies like it should.
EPA has tremendous resources that were not utilized to the fullest. OSHA has forgotten more about ventilation control of extremely hazardous substances including biologicals than anyone.
Here we are 5 years post pandemic and we are for certainty not prepared for next one. I am willing to bet REQUIRED Pandemic Plans are already out of date for all response requirements. Everything from PPE, ventilators, inspections for batteries, supplies, vaccines (many other ones out there), Triage response coordination training across agencies.
We KNOW ventilation works to reduce exposure but was NEVER deployed by CDC. We gave money for businesses to paint their premises, but yet failed to provide basic ventilation recommendations to schools, businesses to reduce/prevent exposures which is a technological proven control for hazardous exposures.
IMO, we need a centralized pandemic command that brings together ALL our resources; CDC, ODHA, EPA, Engineering talents, Respiratory protection companies like 3M, vector control management, transportation, etc
Why? A singular agency cannot manage a pandemic that requires a response across so many different agencies, private resources as well as global agencies and entities.
I despise the thought of increasing size of government but I see a Pandemic like a military response.
There was huge opportunity to change how we could respond to a pandemic with true science and engineering. There was and still is IMO a complete failure for ALL our Agencies to combine their talents to protect us better. If anyone attacks the USA, every branch responds as united front. A pandemic response does not unite our agencies like it should.
EPA has tremendous resources that were not utilized to the fullest. OSHA has forgotten more about ventilation control of extremely hazardous substances including biologicals than anyone.
Here we are 5 years post pandemic and we are for certainty not prepared for next one. I am willing to bet REQUIRED Pandemic Plans are already out of date for all response requirements. Everything from PPE, ventilators, inspections for batteries, supplies, vaccines (many other ones out there), Triage response coordination training across agencies.
We KNOW ventilation works to reduce exposure but was NEVER deployed by CDC. We gave money for businesses to paint their premises, but yet failed to provide basic ventilation recommendations to schools, businesses to reduce/prevent exposures which is a technological proven control for hazardous exposures.
IMO, we need a centralized pandemic command that brings together ALL our resources; CDC, ODHA, EPA, Engineering talents, Respiratory protection companies like 3M, vector control management, transportation, etc
Why? A singular agency cannot manage a pandemic that requires a response across so many different agencies, private resources as well as global agencies and entities.
I despise the thought of increasing size of government but I see a Pandemic like a military response.
Rack Daniels
Well-known member
when it was ripping through Italy, I told my boss “this is coming”.. he thought I was a lunatic. lol I remember reading fauci early on and he says, “We still don’t know if it’s passed through airborne infection or droplets. If droplets, we will all need to mask up for preventative measures. If it is airborne, the masks will not help.” Couple weeks later he proclaims it is, in fact, passed through airborne transmission and not droplets, but we must continue to mask up anyway… there was certainly contradictory information out there that played a huge part in the general public’s skepticism. I’m glad it’s pretty well over now. I tell my kids about the great toilet paper shortage of 2020 but the scariest part was the videos she sent me of empty produce shelves in our local store… empty medicine shelves. No childrens Tylenol available… scary stuff when you’re in desperate need to lower a child’s fever… I got sick twice and the doctors told me I had an anaphylactic reaction to a beesting BECAUSE of my bodies infection with COVID… my wife took care of all of us and never got COVID once… My old man lost a couple friends too.. immunocompromised is immunocompromised regardless. COVID ain’t the only scary bug to these folks. Everything and anything short of healthy, could mean tragedy…
God bless the dearly departed. Save a roll of TP for the next family.
God bless the dearly departed. Save a roll of TP for the next family.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Thanks goodness that training camps are starting. The Monday morning quarterbacking needs some fresh material.
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Forkyfinder
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This countries in for a world of shit when something major actually happens. Both sets of people - those who were looking down on someone for NOT wearing a mask, or deliberately not wearing one in consideration of others and/or their feelings disappointed me.
I may never forget going into Qdoba maskless. The cloth one had been sat on by my dog... neat. Naturally - i walk in to find they also were out of disposable ones. Not another person in there - so i quietly asked if "im ok" to come order and leave. The attendent giggled he didnt care, i apologized, stood extra far away. I proceed to ordering - as they are boxing it up for me to pay... someone who is severely immunocompromised from chronically unhealthy choices comes in and starts going off on me and my lack of mask. I never said anything back - and admittedly i was a bit embarassed so i just left. Thinking about it - i shouldnt have went in - but the response and revolt i received was entirely out of proportion and had came from someone in my estimation hadnt cared about her health for many years. I could only be left wondering why many years of poor diet hadnt been more of significant health choice compared to standing 30' from someone without a mask in a place she could have chose to not enter. It just seems that unreasonable times made for even more outrageously unreasonable people. I aim to never become a "branch covidian" the kind of person, who worshipped the media peddled fear porn every minute, and i also aim to respect someones beliefs enough to put on a disposable mask for 5 measly minutes, or for that matter a long plane ride, if they think its important for their health.
Color me skeptical on folks who say they "know" what would/could have improved performance. They are bluffing themselves. Its extremely nuanced - in terms of how the data was collected, it takes a lot of understanding to see potential holes in comparing differing populations and sampling. Ive not seen much for unbiased studies showing what strategy worked best but i can tell you i know people whos businesses were crushed and other who died a painful lonely death. Both of them would have been a lot better off if people had maintained being decent to eachother.
I may never forget going into Qdoba maskless. The cloth one had been sat on by my dog... neat. Naturally - i walk in to find they also were out of disposable ones. Not another person in there - so i quietly asked if "im ok" to come order and leave. The attendent giggled he didnt care, i apologized, stood extra far away. I proceed to ordering - as they are boxing it up for me to pay... someone who is severely immunocompromised from chronically unhealthy choices comes in and starts going off on me and my lack of mask. I never said anything back - and admittedly i was a bit embarassed so i just left. Thinking about it - i shouldnt have went in - but the response and revolt i received was entirely out of proportion and had came from someone in my estimation hadnt cared about her health for many years. I could only be left wondering why many years of poor diet hadnt been more of significant health choice compared to standing 30' from someone without a mask in a place she could have chose to not enter. It just seems that unreasonable times made for even more outrageously unreasonable people. I aim to never become a "branch covidian" the kind of person, who worshipped the media peddled fear porn every minute, and i also aim to respect someones beliefs enough to put on a disposable mask for 5 measly minutes, or for that matter a long plane ride, if they think its important for their health.
Color me skeptical on folks who say they "know" what would/could have improved performance. They are bluffing themselves. Its extremely nuanced - in terms of how the data was collected, it takes a lot of understanding to see potential holes in comparing differing populations and sampling. Ive not seen much for unbiased studies showing what strategy worked best but i can tell you i know people whos businesses were crushed and other who died a painful lonely death. Both of them would have been a lot better off if people had maintained being decent to eachother.
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Gulf of America
Well-known member
I stayed up all night drinking with my step-brother and brother-in-law at a family reunion and the next day puked in my mask on the flight home. Did the mask make me puke? Maybe. Did the mask also keep my puke contained? Definitely. So a mixed bag.
In all seriousness, a few things stick out to me. One, it really shook my faith and desire to be a part of a Christian community. Seeing so many people professing to serve Jesus unwilling to accept even the smallest inconvenience to potentially save someone's life was really disappointing. Second, the prolonged school closures had a dramatic impact on our youth and that is an impact that I think we're just going to see more and more. It's clear that it went on way longer than there was any data/evidence to support, and I think that had a big part in undermining trust in the public health system. As terrible as the pandemic was, the divisions that were deepened by people shamelessly using everything they could to score political points are much worse.
In all seriousness, a few things stick out to me. One, it really shook my faith and desire to be a part of a Christian community. Seeing so many people professing to serve Jesus unwilling to accept even the smallest inconvenience to potentially save someone's life was really disappointing. Second, the prolonged school closures had a dramatic impact on our youth and that is an impact that I think we're just going to see more and more. It's clear that it went on way longer than there was any data/evidence to support, and I think that had a big part in undermining trust in the public health system. As terrible as the pandemic was, the divisions that were deepened by people shamelessly using everything they could to score political points are much worse.
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Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Met an old Army buddy recently, who I didn't know was so far out anti-vax, as we somehow got into that topic. He seemed appalled at my full vax condition. I told him of 10-shot vax gun blasting my shoulder before departing for Vietnam, measles vax, and polio vax. Then told him, "Yeah I know they chipped me for surveilance ... but this old guy goes to off-grid, outback risky places and so it'll be good for them to find me ... like when I broke my knee in the wilderness and ONX led Two Bear Air to hoist me out!"
I just picked up a used Scadden Montana 8 foot pontoon boat for a song. The bass & panfish are biting. Salmon are gonna start running in the rivers soon. Trout are taking dries and my wife caught a 11" green sunfish yesterday.
I'm day dreaming about tossing poppers to 3 pound bass & bluegill fish tacos. Life happens all around you. You can spend it arguing online with people you don't know or you can do something meaningful, like getting in trouble with your spouse for an impulse purchase.
I'm day dreaming about tossing poppers to 3 pound bass & bluegill fish tacos. Life happens all around you. You can spend it arguing online with people you don't know or you can do something meaningful, like getting in trouble with your spouse for an impulse purchase.
shrapnel
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“If it saves one life it is worth it!”
This gets repeated on many issues, but what is 1 life really worth?
Seat belts save lives, but do we need cops stopping us to tell us to buckle up?
Speed limits save lives, maximum speed should be less than 30 mph and no serious injuries will occur.
This list is endless, but what is the responsibility of the individual?
If a mask works, wear it, but do you need to force everyone to wear one? If you are concerned about getting the virus, isolate yourself, that is the only method that can really work.
The pandemic was more how Covid was treated than Covid was itself. People died due to Covid and there is evidence that Covid was blamed for more deaths than it really took. The reaction to Covid harmed millions of people that were forced into circumstances that ruined their lives, but we’re still enforced.
There was so little known and as it bloomed, some reactions were necessary, others, not so much.
My guess if it appears again, you will see the same reactions we had in the first go around.
This gets repeated on many issues, but what is 1 life really worth?
Seat belts save lives, but do we need cops stopping us to tell us to buckle up?
Speed limits save lives, maximum speed should be less than 30 mph and no serious injuries will occur.
This list is endless, but what is the responsibility of the individual?
If a mask works, wear it, but do you need to force everyone to wear one? If you are concerned about getting the virus, isolate yourself, that is the only method that can really work.
The pandemic was more how Covid was treated than Covid was itself. People died due to Covid and there is evidence that Covid was blamed for more deaths than it really took. The reaction to Covid harmed millions of people that were forced into circumstances that ruined their lives, but we’re still enforced.
There was so little known and as it bloomed, some reactions were necessary, others, not so much.
My guess if it appears again, you will see the same reactions we had in the first go around.
WapitiBob
Well-known member
The one conversation that I remember from the throws of Covid, and I had the fun of shutting down a school district as a school board chair, was with one of my doctors. We were going over basic medical stuff about 2022 about me and he asked if I was vaccinated. I said yes. He was very happy. He had lost three non-vaxed patients that month.
elkduds
Well-known member
Wouldn't a better question be, "How well has our country prepared for future pandemics?" It is when, not if. Denial is not an effective plan, the examples surround us.
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We’ve been doing so well the last couple of weeks. Don’t start being crazy now.
44hunter45
Well-known member
Anybody know where I can get some Tillamook Habanero Jack in a brick?
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