Hey Paws- does this sound familiar?

[Yukon Hunter]

(Sorry, all, but I'm new here, and I'm not entirely sure where to post political "Camentary")
Check this out, Paws- maybe I should be writing for these guys.
This is from the Centre for American Progress
"THE DEFICIT PROBLEM: One oft-overlooked detail about the new economic figures:
the recovery has been paid for by credit, and the bill is going to come due for
future generations of Americans. The quick influx of cash stimulus into the
economy wasn't free; it has to be repaid in the future. The New Yorker calls the
recent economic boost a "sugar high," and next year the country "will have to
deal with record-breaking budget deficits and trade deficits, both of which are
symptomatic of a nation living well beyond its means. In only three years, the
federal government has gone from a surplus of two hundred and thirty-six billion
dollars to a deficit of three hundred and seventy-four billion dollars...Tax
cuts and higher spending have set the country's finances on an unsustainable
course." Financial journalist Stephen Pizzo
concurs, writing, "While
spending huge sums of borrowed money quickly will inevitably spark business
activity as the money is consumed, it does nothing to change the underlying
fundamentals in the marketplace. Once all that high-test fuel is consumed the
economic engine will return to a rough idle?and a lot worse for wear." ( Click
HERE (http://www.worldnewsstand.net/history/your_debt.htm) to see the National
Debt Clock, the amount of the deficit each American family is personally
responsible for paying. At last check it was over $110,000.)"
Sound vaguely familiar, Phil?

 

[pawclaws]

Difficult to say in the long run YH. Traditionally, this would have been a very huge problem. I'm thinking now that it is merely a problem of perception. Bear with me and consider the possibility that neither credit nor money are real. Think that through for a couple of minutes. What is money?? What is credit?? You catch my drift yet? I'm thinking we are headed for an economy based on credit and gold pressed latinum; maybe pharmac..., phaarmu... drugs!

 

[Yukon Hunter]

If it's only a problem of perception, then I perceive that you guys are being carried to the poor house by Dubya and his cronies. Either that, or your kids/ Grandkids are...

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-10-2003 15:02: Message edited by: Yukon Hunter ]</font>

 

[brushy]

i fear you might be right. however in this day and age of globel economy, if we suffer, the whole world suffers. (trickle down). now where did i hear that phrase before

 

[pawclaws]

Ten years ago I would have agreed with you being a Keynesian Lasaiz Fare Economist; however, the reality is there is no reality. Without some form "tangible" value the US dollar has no more viability than the term"credit". The key is to continually transfer and pyramid credit without ever calling due the principle. That isbeing done very successfully.Notice your credit cards balances for "lavailable credit" and how they have multiplied over the past few years. Why? There are only two ways to make the money supply larger; print more money and enlarge available credit. This permits interest rates to be lowered and make more "money" available to both the private and public sector. So, rather than sell something; like labor, stocks, bonds, T bills, or whatever all one needs to do now is borrow against the expanded balance or available credit to pay off the interest on the original principle. In theory this process could continue to infinity with no change in the character of the economy other than a perception of inflation. Kind of like a baloon that never pops!

 

[danr55]

Gentlemen, if I may.. the term economy has nothing to do with money or gold. The value of both is only what anyone is willing to exchange for a stipulated amount of. Economy is has everything to do with the exchange of goods and services and the "cost" extracted or expected for that exchange. With the "world economy" becoming what it is, the thought of dollars vs. Euros vs. Pounds Sterling vs. pesos or dracmas or rubles is rapidly becoming antiquated.

Under the prior government administration, perhaps one of the largest hoaxes ever perptrated on the American economy saw hundreds of millions of dollars invested in companies with absolutely not assets. Several thousands of those companies have now filed bankruptcy and the officers of most of them have escaped prosecution under rule of law. That doesn't mean that millions of retired people and hundreds of millions of others didn't lose thier collective butts in the trades.

Today, gold is worth a lot less that platinum which is worth less that technical properties which is worth less that music copyrights which is worth less than etc etc etc. So talking about the national debt is terms of dollars is like talking about the make up of the universe in terms of atoms and molecules.

As long as everyone is willing to trade for what we have and willing to accept what we offer for what they have, then "debt" in terms of countries is a moot point. Look at how long so many countries have owed the US a "debt". No efforts to repay any of it and no demand for payment. So in reality the only ones who worry about money and debt is the working man and small companies. Just doesn't make sense to worry about something that has no true value..

 

[BuzzH]

Danr, I agree, but with a huge defecit, like the one Dubya is running up, you can bet who that will "trickle down" to.

Regardless of whether or not the various countries pay us back, you can bet your ass that the middle class will catch the bill, for not just that, but every other cost thats associated with running a country. As if that werent bad enough, Dubya and congress will make damn sure to keep their rich buddies from being affected by this debt.

So, knowing that, I know Dubya doesnt give a crap about you and I. Therefore, that makes Dubya just another typical politician, and the exact reason they're so well liked.

 

[pawclaws]

DANR, like it or not our "value or worth" is expressed in "money" terms. It is the medium of exchange and "recognized" value equalizer among goods and services exchanged. In an economy based on "dollars" it certainly has everything to do with the economy.

 

[BHR]

Yukon Hunter,

Looks like the U. S. Government isn't the only one with the "I want it now, I'll pay for it later" philosophy.

Here's a quote from you from another board where you were talking about going on an African hunt.

"Paul- I'm with Don on this. A guy might only have one opportunity to do something like this- I think I have to jump at it. Screw the house. I'm not waiting another 15 years."

So other than being a sad political weasel from a basically socialist country, what is your point, and why do you care how the U. S. manages it's money. I'ld spend more of my time worrying about my own country, and my own finances. Just a tip however.

Paul

 

[JoseCuervo]

Danr,
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> That doesn't mean that millions of retired people and hundreds of millions of others didn't lose thier collective butts in the trades.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did this money get "lost" to???

Have you ever heard of the "Conservation of Matter?" Kinda the same thing. For every little old lady who thought she was going to make a killing buying some Dot.Com that she knew nothing about, there was another party on the other side of the trade, taking her money.

I know somebody who sold a $600k house in San Jose at the height of the Bubble, and pocked $450k in profit. They are pretty damn happy with the Dot.Com bubble.

I think we need to acknowledge that people have a personal responsibility for their investments, and if they choose to put their entire 401K into Enron, that is their Stupid decision. Let's not cry for them.

 

[Yukon Hunter]

Paul-
The point you are evidently missing is that, if I'm lucky enough to go to Africa in the next year or two, and put myself in the hole doing it, it will be MY CHOICE- not someone else telling me I'm going into debt like the current administration is so kindly doing for you folks. Not only that, but I'll be doing it with the express purpose of bringing myself a bit of happiness- not to support your President's cronies.
And what makes it my affair (and everyone else's) is that living next door to the only superpower left means they hold considerable sway over my entire lifeas well- the drop in the US dollar means less jobs in Canada, as an example.
Oh, and by the way- take the weasel comment and stick it.

 

[Santa]

Oh my goodness! Now you boys and girls play nice or Santa will be editing and updating his "Naughty/Nice!"

Time for a funny!

 

[brushy]

Ah common Santa, let um play! it's just starting to get fun

 

[1WHITETAIL HUNTER]

Yeah! SANTA! LEAVE THEM ALONE! Its starting to look like fun....or....like it looked on the NAHC board!

 

[BHR]

Yukon Hunter,

I'm not going to debate economics with you. There's no point, your totally clueless. And if your livelyhood is so much attached to Uncle Sams tit, your a lost cause anyway. I guess that's what years of ingrained socialism does for you. Can't even stand up on your own two feet.

Your approach to Bashing Bush was what it was. Pathetic. You want an honest debate? Bring it on. I don't think you have much ammo to back up your bullshit.

 

[FLIPPER]

You guys are hilarious

And several of your views are correct, money, debt, world economy, our economy, jobs and deficit...does affect us ALL.

 

[Yukon Hunter]

Paul (you moron)-
I'd be delighted to debate the economy, or any other subject your pea-brain would like to take a crack at. Perhaps you can post some information to back up your side of things, rather than just running your mouth.
As those here that know me will tell you, there are few things in life I enjoy more than making someone look stupid- although, in your case, I'd imagine you'll take care of that for me.
(note- Paws, looks like you're off the hook for a while...

)

 

[Santa]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brushy:
i fear you might be right. however in this day and age of globel economy, if we suffer, the whole world suffers. (trickle down). now where did i hear that phrase before

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK Brushy; but be really careful here because Santa knows quite a bit about Macroeconomics! Santa will be watching!!

 

[Santa]

And I suppose a man who runs around in a red suit with his bag slung over his shoulder "isn't" a Moron??

Uhhh, wait...

Never mind!

 

[BHR]

Okay Yuke,

Well start you off slow.

When the American dollar began to decline in relation to the value of the Canadian dollar, Did you get similar reductions in YOUR paycheck?

Paul