Irrelevant
Well-known member
You Texas boys solved the problem without even knowing it. Just swap in a dart gun
Remote-Control Hunting
www.outdoorlife.com
H.R. 8828 introduced -Leghold and conibear traps
- Thread starter Brandon270
- Start date
www.outdoorlife.com
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
30 documented dead dogs in one state over last 7 season isn't "a dog in the 48 states getting pinched". Reasonable folks can disagree on if that cost is too high and what steps may be appropriate to resolve, but intentionally misrepresenting the actual harm that is being discussed does not convince anyone who is paying attention of your position.
Also, as you point out, even in the best of circumstances things can and do go bad - but typically the person who "pulls the trigger" so to speak is the one who pays for the unfortunate event, not the person on the other end - why does trapping get a free pass? If it remains legal how do you feel about full legal/financial responsibilty clearly on the trapper - no different than if I accidentally shoot some rancher's cow on a pronghorn passthrough. Maybe required identfication on traps and liabilty for accidental injury/kills would encourage the less thoughtful trappers to improve their game or get out of the hobby.
Carl 9.3x62
Well-known member
I don't trap, but would like to try it. I do own a dog and bird hunt occasionally. Here are a few thoughts I had while reading this thread:
If my dog got caught in a trap, yeah it would suck, but I don't think I would be pissed at the trapper. I know there is risk taking my dog outdoors, especially if she is unleashed, and I assume responsibility. Just as if she ran out into a street and got hit by a car. That's just the way it goes sometimes.
I hate to see more regulations implemented in outdoor activities, so I am opposed to any sort of trapping ban. But realistically I do think the future of trapping is headed out the door.
While recently looking at the trapping regs (for WY) I was kind of surprised to see a pamphlet on how to remove your dog from a trap. I think it's good they have that information available, but unless you went looking for it specifically I'm not sure how people would find out about it.
If my dog got caught in a trap, yeah it would suck, but I don't think I would be pissed at the trapper. I know there is risk taking my dog outdoors, especially if she is unleashed, and I assume responsibility. Just as if she ran out into a street and got hit by a car. That's just the way it goes sometimes.
I hate to see more regulations implemented in outdoor activities, so I am opposed to any sort of trapping ban. But realistically I do think the future of trapping is headed out the door.
While recently looking at the trapping regs (for WY) I was kind of surprised to see a pamphlet on how to remove your dog from a trap. I think it's good they have that information available, but unless you went looking for it specifically I'm not sure how people would find out about it.
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VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Don't worry - the government always holds itself to a different set of rules.
AvidIndoorsman
Well-known member
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- Messages
- 18,411
Listen cranky pants, I'm not goring your bull right now.
Please direct thy ire elsewhere.
Yes I have very limited experience, as stated. Also there I know for a fact you can used various types of sets/trail offsets/ and season dates to mitigate the issue.
There's a WMA about 15 min from me... I can't use a gun in that WMA. Perhaps knowledgeable trappers should help promulgated some rules if they want to save trapping.
Best practices applied across the nation would be still catch dogs? I don't know that's not our reality.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Identification on traps has always been required in every state I've ever trapped (with the exception of landowners trapping their own land) You rail away that trappers don't know about bird dogs, and yet you don't understand much at all about trapping.
I'm not disagreeing with you, trapping is done in the lower-48, there isn't room for anymore compromise. Its an endeavor that you can't regulate further and have any active participation in. Newflash, you aren't catching a coyote that will dig up your best dirthole set when you're only option is a have-a-hart.
I'm not being a smart-ass I'm being honest. ONE dog is one too many...30 over 7 years is even worse.
One a year is all it takes and its over...trapping has no future in the lower-48. Period, end of story. Either by outright bans or compromising on regulation to the point its simply not practical.
Sad, but just the way it is.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yes...100%
Just like every year, in spite of mountains of hunters-ed, safeties on firearms, and literal page after page of hunting regulations, hunting accidents resulting in death and injury to human life happen every year.
Shangobango
Well-known member
I guess it is option B.
I am currently sitting 3/4 of a mile from the boat four river miles from camp steaming because of the expletive expletive expletive guy that walked right through the bedding area I meticulously set up on right about sundown. So... Can we ban dumb asses on public land?
I will leave this discussion, such that it is, with one final thought that was passed along to me by the man that taught me to hunt, fish, and trap and instilled in me a great love, respect, and admiration for the outdoors. I am not sure where he got this saying or if it was of his own concoction. I heard it countless times growing up and well into my 20’s before he was killed and I do my best not to have it apply to me though I all too often fail: “Closed minds breed foolishness”.
I sure miss that old man.
huronmtns
Well-known member
So there are people on this forum that want to end the activities that brought them historically to where they are living today.
Trapping History - Fur Trade Industry (trap-anything.com)
Trapping fur in the US still is International. A very large portion of fur is shipped to many countries like Russia, Greece, and China, as examples. This is pulling money from other countries and helps our countries revenues. The business side of trapping has not been brought up in this thread yet.
I have sent my fur to Fur Harvesters Auction Inc. Each of your animals is assigned a number and you can track what it sells for and the buyer and what country it will be going too.
I know that will not happen with a bird you may shoot.
I'm just trying to show why trapping has stayed even though it is not popular with everyone. There is a big reason that may not be in peoples minds and this might help them understand why higher government really does not want to end a international bu$ine$$.
State Wildlife Managers in most states are aware of the business aspect of trapping.
Trapping History - Fur Trade Industry (trap-anything.com)
Trapping fur in the US still is International. A very large portion of fur is shipped to many countries like Russia, Greece, and China, as examples. This is pulling money from other countries and helps our countries revenues. The business side of trapping has not been brought up in this thread yet.
I have sent my fur to Fur Harvesters Auction Inc. Each of your animals is assigned a number and you can track what it sells for and the buyer and what country it will be going too.
I know that will not happen with a bird you may shoot.
I'm just trying to show why trapping has stayed even though it is not popular with everyone. There is a big reason that may not be in peoples minds and this might help them understand why higher government really does not want to end a international bu$ine$$.
State Wildlife Managers in most states are aware of the business aspect of trapping.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yep, feel bad for your daughters as it will be gone in their lifetimes in Montana for sure...no question.
It is/was a great endeavor that will also lead to zero concern or funding for furbearers as well.
Nobody cares about that though.
Whole different world Buzz. Full of "different" sportsman. mtmuley
Guess I’ll have to get another bird dog
Keep it out of traps. mtmuley
406dn
Well-known member
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- Messages
- 2,034
They'll hunt it on leash,,,,so no worries.
If this thread was more political,,,I'd say there were a few snowflakes around.
Bet you know some.... mtmuley
406dn
Well-known member
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You too
Funny. mtmuley
shootbrownelk
Well-known member
You sure seem to be a violent sort of fella.
theat
Well-known member
I think Montana has done a good job with their trapping regulations. A lot of that has to do with the Montana Trappers Association working with FWP to change regulations to decrease the chances of pets and the general public encountering traps. They have worked with FWP to create no trapping areas in high public use locations and increased setbacks from roads and trailheads. In the last handful of years there have also been changes to legal trap mechanics such as break aways and swivel locations to decrease harm to non target catches. In my opinion it was also a smart call to not allow snaring for wolves. Way too many brand new guys getting into trapping just to kill wolves that don't know what they are doing. It would have led to a lot more negative dog interactions. MTA leadership could see the writing on the wall with general public opinion and groups like Trap Free Montana gaining traction. Trappers can still be very effective, and if done properly the chances of negative publicity are minimal. Of course it will happen, but the less it does the better.
Despite what I have said earlier in this thread, I really don't want to see trapping disappear. Unfortunately, trapping does not have the best optics and can be difficult to justify for many people. Like others have mentioned, many of the pro trapping arguments in this thread are not going to fly with the public.
Blaming dog owners and dogs - WAY more dog lovers than trapper lovers. That argument is not even working on a site full of hunters.
The economic benefits - don't think your average American is supportive of killing those cute fluffy animals just so someone can make a few $$, and trapping is insignificant when it comes to US international trade deficits.
Changing hunting seasons and or closing areas to the general public to decrease conflict with trappers - Just don't see that happening either. The numbers on each side just don't work in the favor of trapping.
Now, I don't necessarily agree with any of that, but you and I are not anywhere near the average citizen with our knowledge and opinion on anything related to this. It is not fair that trappers are the ones that always have to give something up, but that is just the way it is going to be. Our country and society is changing. The US population is increasing, development is spreading like crazy, there are more people recreating on public lands, there are many new types of recreational activities people are doing out there, information is spread much more easily, and on and on. Trappers need to be extra vigilant about keeping negative public contact to a minimum.
Im not sure what the best pro trapping arguments are for the general public, but I think it needs to be geared more towards biology. Some examples could be - trapping bans can lead to overpopulation and disease outbreaks in furbearers that can also impact other species and pets. Trapping keeps waterfowl and upland bird egg eating predator populations in check. Fish and game agencies use trapping often to monitor populations and catch and move animals to new habitat. There are several research papers on these topics to back up these arguments. I have also heard some great presentations by wildlife biologist exhorting the benefits of trapping.
Or you could just go straight to emotional reasons since in reality most peoples opinions seem to be based on them (mine included at times). Coyotes kill tons of pet dogs and cats every year.
Coyote attacks on pets on the rise in metro areas; small dogs are especially vulnerable
Several pet owners have reported their small dogs have been killed or injured in coyote attacks
www.freep.com
There are also a bunch of YouTube videos of coyotes attacking dogs and cats in peoples backyards that might sway a pet lover.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
If this thread was full of opinions and responses like this I'd still happy support trapping as a use on our public lands. And maybe I'll let these responses sway me more than the GFY and your dog responses.I think Montana has done a good job with their trapping regulations. A lot of that has to do with the Montana Trappers Association working with FWP to change regulations to decrease the chances of pets and the general public encountering traps. They have worked with FWP to create no trapping areas in high public use locations and increased setbacks from roads and trailheads. In the last handful of years there have also been changes to legal trap mechanics such as break aways and swivel locations to decrease harm to non target catches. In my opinion it was also a smart call to not allow snaring for wolves. Way too many brand new guys getting into trapping just to kill wolves that don't know what they are doing. It would have led to a lot more negative dog interactions. MTA leadership could see the writing on the wall with general public opinion and groups like Trap Free Montana gaining traction. Trappers can still be very effective, and if done properly the chances of negative publicity are minimal. Of course it will happen, but the less it does the better.
Despite what I have said earlier in this thread, I really don't want to see trapping disappear. Unfortunately, trapping does not have the best optics and can be difficult to justify for many people. Like others have mentioned, many of the pro trapping arguments in this thread are not going to fly with the public.
Blaming dog owners and dogs - WAY more dog lovers than trapper lovers. That argument is not even working on a site full of hunters.
The economic benefits - don't think your average American is supportive of killing those cute fluffy animals just so someone can make a few $$, and trapping is insignificant when it comes to US international trade deficits.
Changing hunting seasons and or closing areas to the general public to decrease conflict with trappers - Just don't see that happening either. The numbers on each side just don't work in the favor of trapping.
Now, I don't necessarily agree with any of that, but you and I are not anywhere near the average citizen with our knowledge and opinion on anything related to this. It is not fair that trappers are the ones that always have to give something up, but that is just the way it is going to be. Our country and society is changing. The US population is increasing, development is spreading like crazy, there are more people recreating on public lands, there are many new types of recreational activities people are doing out there, information is spread much more easily, and on and on. Trappers need to be extra vigilant about keeping negative public contact to a minimum.
Im not sure what the best pro trapping arguments are for the general public, but I think it needs to be geared more towards biology. Some examples could be - trapping bans can lead to overpopulation and disease outbreaks in furbearers that can also impact other species and pets. Trapping keeps waterfowl and upland bird egg eating predator populations in check. Fish and game agencies use trapping often to monitor populations and catch and move animals to new habitat. There are several research papers on these topics to back up these arguments. I have also heard some great presentations by wildlife biologist exhorting the benefits of trapping.
Or you could just go straight to emotional reasons since in reality most peoples opinions seem to be based on them (mine included at times). Coyotes kill tons of pet dogs and cats every year.
Coyote attacks on pets on the rise in metro areas; small dogs are especially vulnerable
Several pet owners have reported their small dogs have been killed or injured in coyote attackswww.freep.com
There are also a bunch of YouTube videos of coyotes attacking dogs and cats in peoples backyards that might sway a pet lover.
But one angle you didn't mention was the 100% organic renewable aspect of fur garments vs traditional oil based ones. The same can be said for all leather products. I think you can get many logical people to look past the death of the individual and see the value that these renewable resources can provide.
