Guide to Poaching on Your ATV

[Doug]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ithaca 37:

Every poacher knows it's much easier to poach from an ATV because you can get back into more inaccessable areas and you have a great chance of outrunning anyone who discovers you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had to go back and read your statement again Ithaca. Thanks for the advice.

Doug

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-27-2003 18:56: Message edited by: Doug ]</font>

 

[Elkhunter]

Well from what I can see, Ithaca and Buzz sure know a lot about poaching on an ATV.

If there were not any ATVs, do you think these poachers would not make trails a little bigger so they could get their trucks down them?

So, no it isnt the atv pulling the trigger, but is sure does give them added opportunity.
So do the longer range and more powerful rifles, bullets and scopes of today.

Particularly in the country in question, around Seeley Lake MT. Its remote and your odds of being seen on a renegade atv trail are about nill.
If your chances of being seen are nil, then it wouldn't matter what means they used for poaching. If they used a hellicopter, would it be the hellicopters fault also?

Like it or not, you arent entitled to a damn thing. You either cut it, or you stay home.
Guess the same goes for you then.

As far as having rights, why should your right to GAIN access supercede my right to LIMIT ACCESS, dont I pay taxes too?
No one can argue that one.

Besides, most people I see on ATV's are more than capable but they want the easy way out.
I suppose that you do not have a car or truck then. I think you are very capable of walking to work or anywhere else for that matter, but like the rest of us it is the easier way out.

Read the first post again! Illegal trails made it easy to get around at nite and use a spotlight. I'm sure they could cover much more ground with ATVs. They probably couldn't have used full sized vehicles on the illegal trails. I doubt very much they could have accomplished what they did without ATVs
If there were not any ATVs, do you think these poachers would not make trails a little bigger so they could get their trucks down them?

You guys are very, very funny. There are good arguments from both sides on here, but I have to agree with the majority on this one.

 

[Ithaca 37]

I think it's a lot easier to make illegal trails for an ATV than a full size truck. And there are many gates you can get an ATV around that you can't get a truck around.

 

[Elkhunter]

All one would need is an inexpesive set of bolt cutters or a chainsaw.

I am not saying you are wrong, but I think you put too much blame on the ATV in this case. A poacher is going to poach whether there are ATVs or not. If every ATV was destroyed tomorrow, there would still be poaching.

 

[MEATHEAD]

What if all of this had taken place using horses, would you still be saying the same thing about a horse.

 

[Ithaca 37]

I guess my point is that ATVs made it a lot easier to pull off this poaching operation. If they hadn't had ATVs who knows what would have happened. Sure, maybe they would have used horses (a lot more work than ATVs), maybe they would have built wider trails for trucks (a lot more work than for ATVs), but I doubt they would have.

Outlaw ATVs (which would be impossible) and you'd see a lot less poaching. Confiscate ATVs used for poaching and you'd see a lot less poaching from ATVs.

 

[Elkhunter]

Outlaw ATVs (which would be impossible) and you'd see a lot less poaching.I think intially you would see a lot less. A poacher is going to poach regardless. In cities where handguns are banned, do you see less crime?
Confiscate ATVs used for poaching and you'd see a lot less poaching from ATVs.
Well that is pretty much a given.

 

[Muledeer4me]

First I want to say these MORONs should pay BIG time for this poaching.
Stripped nakid drug through the dirt (with the vehical of you choice)

Mine would be my ATV.
Fine them,take everything involved in the poaching,and take away all there hunting privlages.
Second ,I have to laugh ONLY becaue some are placing so much blame on the ATV.
I agree with buzz that it does give a person easer & faster access and could aid in poaching,but like others have pointed out ,so did the spot light,the guns Blah Blah Blah.
The illegal ATV trails -------did these bone heads make them?
I would not place these morons in the class of ATV rider anymore then I would place them in the class of Hunter.
It comes down to lack of hitting poachers hard enough where it hurts and hurts real bad.
We are to easy on poaching.

 

[MEATHEAD]

I agree 100%. We need some stiffer fines, jail time, take everything. But don't make me or anyone else pay for somthing someone else has done.

 

[BuzzH]

Elkhunter, on a couple of your points...

Yep, I do feel that if I cant cut it when it comes to packing elk on my back or WALKING into a hunting area, then yeah, I would stay home.

But, instead of whining and bitching about how tough life is, I get off my ass and hike, all the time. I make a committment to the sport. I dont try to compensate for my lack of ability by buying a machine to make it easier. Elk hunting shouldnt be easy anyway. If you want it easy...may I suggest a phone call to TOM down in Texas.

Your comment about the ATV VS. Horses in the Seeley lake crime is lame, really lame. I've found that for the most part, the more work a person puts into hunting, the bigger the committment the less likely they are to poach. In other words if those guys from seeley had to go through the effort to keep horses around all the time, buy trucks to pull them, buy trailers, feed them, shoe them, etc. etc. they more than likely wouldnt have bothered. But, when all they have to do is park an ATV, fill it with gas, and off you go, thats EASY. That isnt much in the way of committment to the sport.

The same goes for your argument about them making a wider trail to drive trucks, they arent going to go through the effort of clearing roads for miles upon miles through thick forests. It isnt easy, that would take committment, time, and the chance of being caught building the roads. Remember, a large part of their poaching was taking place on a state owned/controlled winter range...Boyd Mountain.

The last word on this for me will be that the ATV's, without any doubt at all, played a huge roll in their success. It was the cheapest, easiest and most efficient way for them to pull off these crimes. Thats why people poach, they arent committed enough to do it right and need an advantage.

 

[RockyDog]

Yesterday I was obviously a little pissed off that these guys could do this with their ATVs and of course none of the other illegal ATV trail users turned them in. Buzzh has explained this very well and i agree with his points. I admit some of you other guys have a good point about the similarity between the banning of guns, which i would never want, and the banning of ATVs. But these excuses for poaching on ATVs are ridiculous, explain to me how these poachers would plug in their spotlights on a horse or on foot? Explain to me how someone would poach over a hundred animals on foot or horse as compared to riding around in what is basically a minitruck? Explain to me how you would cover 20 or 30 miles in a night on foot poaching patrol?

I have friends that ride and hunt with ATVs and I know they have their place and always will because of the money involved. But there seems to be a rift building for the guy that wants to work hard and hunt back country on foot. Here in Montana anyways, if the country is level enough for fat tires, its open. If its steep and rocky with less useable habitat, its closed. I believe this with all the “imaginary” abuses are what a lot of hunters are getting really sick of.

I guess we are a country with a 20% to 30% obesity rate and we are basically getting lazier by the minute, no changing that. Because of this trend there is alot of people who dont take care of their bodies as they get older or have enough ambition to walk a few miles, so to these people alot of forests are really "locked off" because their bodies or their Will cant handle backcountry. To suit their abilities, they would like to see our forests made handicap accessible, just sit on piece of foam and push on the throttle with their thumb to get there. Just open the access and restrict the permits so that everyone is on a level playing board right? Every 60 year old man or 40 year old corporate exec. with pudgy legs should have equal access to the good elk country, hard work should be limited to a few areas I guess and everything else should be a walk in the park.

I know there are good, responsible ATV users out there because I know a few of them. The problem is that ATVs attract the fat, unethical slobs and they make an area that was a 2 hour hike attainable by sitting on foam for 20 minutes, which is resulting in so much bad.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 10:12: Message edited by: RockyDog ]</font>

 

[Lostagain]

Hell, go a step further, since these poachers were from MISSOULA COUNTY, lets make sure no one from missoula county has an ATV and a gun. Solves that.

 

[Michaelr]

I guarantee you I could take you out tonight with a battery powered spotlight, (no need to plug it in) In YOUR TRUCK, and we could wack a dozen good bucks saw off the horns and drive away.
Sad part is that it happens all the time

My point to all of this is, reguardless of ATV's these ass wipes would have been doing the same thing, Maybe not in the same area, there are alot of places where it would be easy to poach, Hell out on marsh creek road between inkom and pocatello Id. where my sister lives the deer winter right along the road, you could go out at night and run them over with your truck

The anwser is to punish poachers big time so that it isn't worth the risk. confiscate there truck, atv, rifle, atleast 6 months jail, 10,000$ fine, loose hunting privledges for life.

 

[dgibson]

With these guys, the ATV was just a means to an end. They are CRIMINALS. They would have poached without ATV's, just like LA gangs would beat each other with bats if they couldn't get their hands on guns. It's not like they bought an ATV and then said, "You know, now we can poach!" They are poachers who figured out that using ATV's would facilitate their crime. Cars facilitate drive-by shootings, too, but you can bet that the target would wind up dead regardless.

My question about the whole thing is just how this went on for TEN YEARS without being stopped. Sure, other ATV users didn't turn them in, but what about gubmint employees, hunters, fishers, bird watchers, hikers, boot-knockers, tree huggers, arsonists, and insane hermit unabombers? Did NO ONE else venture that way, see these trails or report them over TEN YEARS? Or did the complaints or reports just get ignored?

 

[MarlandS]

Yep the ATV crowd invented high volume poaching

Yep sure, if you get hit by a drunk driver some Sunday afternoon to where your ability to walk is definately limitted, you won't want an ATV to hunt with, your neighbor can teach your kid/grandkid to hunt, that will be the same.

Yep, ban them all, no special use permits. hell while you're at it remove all the other special permits available to the handicapped, don't want them out there anyway. By gosh, if they can't hunt the same way we do *uck 'em.

Never mind that those so inclined to hike back would have the place to themselves anyway, the slob ATVers wouldn't go through the effort, they'd get 1/4 mile in and call that good. So it's be you and MAYBE a handicapper on an ATV , THAT'S JUST TOO FRIGGIN CROWDED!

Oh, and lets remember that the ATV poachers in the article were already breaking several laws so banning ATV's on fed lands sure will stop them from using them.

 

[MEATHEAD]

Sounds like some people need to buy there on land and make up ther on rules.

Public land should have rules to suit all but that is impossible.

We need more F&G officers to try to help the problem with poaching or plain law breaking people. I hate it just as much as you do. One day in the near future I hope to get go on an elk hunt.

I'll be the first to admit I don't have all the answer to the prblems ya'll are having with ATV'S. That's the one reason that Idon't hunt on public land if I can help it. There's is no good answer to this prblem , we all have to work thur this problem.
WE DON'T NEED IRRATIONALLY LAWS. THAT'S WERE YOU CAN LOSE YOUR GUNS.

 

[Muledeer4me]

Meathead,
I hope you get the chance to do an elk hunt.
Dont let all the negative stuff get you turned off from hunting public lands.
There are still plenty of good spots that arent over run with people and ATVs,but
dont forget some of those darn ATV riders are killing game.

This last year we didnt see one other person on ATV's while in the field where we were hunting ,and yes we saw some nice bulls and Lots of cow's.
I have to tell you that on most days driving on main dirt roads we saw deer,antelope,moose,elk all while either in the pick-up or riding our ATVs.It was wild.
You and your family would love it.

 

[FLIPPER]

Hey Deb...Meathead and I will get to hunt elk...didn't you hear??? It looks like Colorado will have atleast 1 more, maybe 2 more years of legally "canned" hunts

So we still have a chance

 

[Elkhunter]

There's is no good answer to this prblem
Yes there is MEATHEAD. Close down all the forest to ATVs and ban the use of ATVs. It is a well known fact that anyone who uses an ATV is a fat assed, lazy poacher and does not belong in our forests because if you can't cut it, you do not belong there. It is the ATVs fault for damage in the forest and the illeagal killing of animals and the person driving it and shooting the animals is only along for the ride, perhaps held hostage by the ATV. It is the ATVs fault that the laws are not enforced. It is the ATVs fault for not having gates big or wide enough to prevent the fat assed lazy slobs from going around them. May as well blame the ATV for everything else that is wrong while we are at it. Hell they add to air polution also so get rid of them.
I see a lot of good responses about the problems with ATV misuse and a few that have the same negativity all the time.

Reading some of the crap on here is rather amusing.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Elkhunter, Yup! We sure made an issue out of it here in SI didn't we? It got turned into a big issue in lots of places. Now that everybody's cards are out on the table and everybody has had their say I hope there will be some practical solutions coming out of the ATV hearing at the Idaho Legislature tonite.