Forkyfinder
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Is there substantial difference in amenties, regulations, etc.?
Thats quite a disparity - and based on the comments about economics im suprised it is rented.
Grazing fees, the economics of elk and cattle
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Thats quite a disparity - and based on the comments about economics im suprised it is rented.
kwyeewyk
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Part of the difference is that most state DNR or similar is "trust land" that helps fund schools and other services. Most of their mission is to generate revenue. No part of BLM or FS mission involves generating revenue.
Forkyfinder
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The approach sèems notably different on o&g fees, renewable energy fees, and mineral fees.
Why have a fee at all? For any of it?
kwyeewyk
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I have never compared those fees to state or private equivalents, post some data. I believe congress also sets those rates?
Straight Arrow
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Yeah ... oil, gas, and gold ... isn't it all for the "public"? 'Checks off the "multiple use" box.
O&G & minerals are generally under competetitive leases that have a basement set by the agency through a formula divined by the congress, IIRC.
State Lands are under a mandate to maximize return to the Trust in order to more fully value the public resource being used for private gain. Not sure how renewables lease their property but since it's not a mineral right but rather a surface use, I'd imagine that Uncle Sugar has some creative ways to undercharge for that as well.
The reason for a fee is that the resource - oil, gas, timber, grass, etc belongs to the people of the United States - all of us. In order to ensure that the public's trust resources are managed appropriately, a fee is charged and management plans are developed. Whether or not the system works is another discussion altogether but the bones of the regulation are solid.
Forkyfinder
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kwyeewyk
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How do they compare to state/private?
Forkyfinder
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Federal Oil and Gas Royalty and Revenue Reform
U.S. taxpayers are being shortchanged hundreds of millions of dollars each year by outdated oil and gas policies on federal public lands.
www.americanprogress.org
As far as solar - $250 - $2000 per acre on private - which is different pricing structure than the BLM.
5 acres per megawatt is pretty typical via google, so the rate would be $1250-$10,000 on private per megawatt vs $2000 and higher up front cost (EIA, permitting timeline, upfront fee per acre, etc.) of developing on public blm.
So between 50 to 30% or so of the price of private. Higher or lower within a margin of error for sure. Nothing approaching single digit percentages, nonetheless.
Edit: should add - this would be annual rent. So a typ 250 mw facility on 1250 would pay .5 mil per year for 30 years. Or about 1000x as much as someone running cattle.
Lease Rates for Solar Farms: How Valuable Is My Land? - SolarLandLease
What do solar developers typically pay landowners to lease (rent) their property to build a solar farm? What is the average lease rate per acre?
www.solarlandlease.com
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BRI
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Here's how Montana DNRC minimum grazing fees are calculated. The minimum is adjusted every year. There are also some leases that have been competitively bid higher.
The base or minimum rate charged per animal-unit-month (AUM) on state trust grazing lands is calculated annually using a formula set in state law (§77-6-507(2), MCA). That formula takes the average price per pound of beef cattle in Montana from the previous year, times a multiplier established by the Board of Land Commissioners. Beef cattle prices are provided to the Department each year by the Montana Agricultural Statistics Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA NASS). The market year price used to set the 2024 rental rate is $1.5777/lb.
The current multiplier set by the Land Board in 2011 is 10.48.
The 2024 rate is calculated as follows:
$1.5777/lb. X 10.48 = $16.53/AUM
The base or minimum rate charged per animal-unit-month (AUM) on state trust grazing lands is calculated annually using a formula set in state law (§77-6-507(2), MCA). That formula takes the average price per pound of beef cattle in Montana from the previous year, times a multiplier established by the Board of Land Commissioners. Beef cattle prices are provided to the Department each year by the Montana Agricultural Statistics Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA NASS). The market year price used to set the 2024 rental rate is $1.5777/lb.
The current multiplier set by the Land Board in 2011 is 10.48.
The 2024 rate is calculated as follows:
$1.5777/lb. X 10.48 = $16.53/AUM
BLM is now 16.67%View attachment 316430Federal Oil and Gas Royalty and Revenue Reform
U.S. taxpayers are being shortchanged hundreds of millions of dollars each year by outdated oil and gas policies on federal public lands.
As far as solar - $250 - $2000 per acre on private - which is different pricing structure than the BLM.
5 acres per megawatt is pretty typical via google, so the rate would be $1250-$10,000 on private per megawatt vs $2000 and higher up front cost (EIA, permitting timeline, upfront fee per acre, etc.) of developing on public blm.
So between 50 to 30% or so of the price of private. Higher or lower within a margin of error for sure. Nothing approaching single digit percentages, nonetheless.
Lease Rates for Solar Farms: How Valuable Is My Land? - SolarLandLease
What do solar developers typically pay landowners to lease (rent) their property to build a solar farm? What is the average lease rate per acre?www.solarlandlease.com
Forkyfinder
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What is the justification for the fee? If there is no stated goal for revenue?
As someone as a SME, can you comment more? What is the feeling of regional BLM managers?
Certainly improvement/remediation is a topic in grazing - it's also true in mining. Can't comment on other development, though, as I don't know. Some of the best ecology is on reclaimed mine lands.
No.
I login for the entertainment, not to debate Dunnings and Krugers.
That being said, there are quite a few people on here whose opinions I respect.
SilentBirdHunter
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What is an SME? Structure Mechanical Enginèer?
Forkyfinder
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Subject matter expert.
Forkyfinder
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BuzzH
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But still nothing close to what they should. Oil, gold, silver, coal, REM's don't grow back every year either. Rotation age on timber 60-80 years best case in the IMW...more likely 100+.
You need to study some range management.
Forkyfinder
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Turn your lights off.
BuzzH
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That's conceding you lost the discussion and waving the white flag, come back when you do some studying.
Forkyfinder
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What do i need to study? Did i ever say expressly that grazing is inherently bad? It is taken advatange of, underfunded, and solutions are required.
You lose people with your narcissism, out of some weird distaste for an entire generation of hunters. Bad actors in hunting are a tale as as old as hunting. They were apart of your generation too and still are.
Post some "grip/grins" and tell me how awesome you are next.
