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[Bambistew]

A lot has changed with the UL and sheep hunting in MT in the last 25? years. I think the bonus point system started in 97? The most important change was MT going to points and the changes they implemented after. Like sitting out, getting an UL permit (killing a sheep) and keeping your points. Prior to points you applied for an UL permit or a limited permit. There was no "OTC" tags, you committed June 1. You also couldn't sit out a year, if you did you lost your points, and you couldn't get an UL tag and not use your points. Lots of loopholes added to let people get the best of both.

Unit 301 used to issue about 130 UL permits every year from the late 80-late 90s before it closed. The rest of them floated between 50 and 80ish. The numbers tanked when the preference point system went into effect. Everyone wanted to build points thinking that was their only true way to getting a sheep tag so they chose that route. Many have figure out that they are so far behind the top point holders, that applying for a limited tag is pointless. So they have gone to UL. MT also issued at least 50% more limited ram tags a year, AND there was probably half as many people applying for them. I remember applying for the upper Root tags that had draw odds in the 5-7% range. I'm sure @BuzzH or @shoots-straight may remember even higher percentages in the 80s.

I think there is a lot more social media coverage on those units, but I don't think they are really any more popular than they were in the past. Its still just a camping trip for 99% of the participants, and always has been. Does it really matter if its on a quota if more people go? Is it really more competition, when the majority rarely make it off the trail?

What's funny is there has literally been 2-3 generations of hunters chasing UL rams prior to the Johnny-come-lately SM fame chasers.

 

[EYJONAS!]

I'm going back through and deleting all involvement.

 

[BuzzH]

A lot has changed with the UL and sheep hunting in MT in the last 25? years. I think the bonus point system started in 97? The most important change was MT going to points and the changes they implemented after. Like sitting out, getting an UL permit (killing a sheep) and keeping your points. Prior to points you applied for an UL permit or a limited permit. There was no "OTC" tags, you committed June 1. You also couldn't sit out a year, if you did you lost your points, and you couldn't get an UL tag and not use your points. Lots of loopholes added to let people get the best of both.

Unit 301 used to issue about 130 UL permits every year from the late 80-late 90s before it closed. The rest of them floated between 50 and 80ish. The numbers tanked when the preference point system went into effect. Everyone wanted to build points thinking that was their only true way to getting a sheep tag so they chose that route. Many have figure out that they are so far behind the top point holders, that applying for a limited tag is pointless. So they have gone to UL. MT also issued at least 50% more limited ram tags a year, AND there was probably half as many people applying for them. I remember applying for the upper Root tags that had draw odds in the 5-7% range. I'm sure @BuzzH or @shoots-straight may remember even higher percentages in the 80s.

I think there is a lot more social media coverage on those units, but I don't think they are really any more popular than they were in the past. Its still just a camping trip for 99% of the participants, and always has been. Does it really matter if its on a quota if more people go? Is it really more competition, when the majority rarely make it off the trail?

What's funny is there has literally been 2-3 generations of hunters chasing UL rams prior to the Johnny-come-lately SM fame chasers.

Spot on, great post. I do think the preference system started in 2000. Yes, I remember when the breaks tags were 5-10% draw odds. Duncan Gilchrist even wrote in one of his books that the breaks would never produce a B&C ram, many believed that. Lower Rock Creek had some very good odds the first couple years as well.

 

[BlueSLYR]

A lot has changed with the UL and sheep hunting in MT in the last 25? years.

I'd say this whole situation is just a microcosm of hunting out west in general. But honestly, I'm surprised about the lack of media about the UL. I would think there would way more articles and videos about the one DIY bighorn hunt for non residents. That being said, the lack of information means every single person who's ever googled this hunt gets suggested this thread, and I bet you almost all those guys who killed rams in there this year, and I don't know any personally, have read this thread.

 

[Bambistew]

I'd say this whole situation is just a microcosm of hunting out west in general. But honestly, I'm surprised about the lack of media about the UL. I would think there would way more articles and videos about the one DIY bighorn hunt for non residents. That being said, the lack of information means every single person who's ever googled this hunt gets suggested this thread, and I bet you almost all those guys who killed rams in there this year, and I don't know any personally, have read this thread.

Writing articles or making videos of unsuccess sheep hunts don't sell too well.

 

[FREAK]

the lack of information means every single person who's ever googled this hunt gets suggested this thread

That’s exactly how I ended up hearing about and joining HT.

 

[Jofes]

That’s exactly how I ended up hearing about and joining HT.

Ditto...

 

[geewhiz]

I say get rid of the thread.

 

[Jofes]

Even if it's not the biggest thread, I'd be surprised if it isn't the most viewed.

 

[winmag]

Or we could try to get unlimited areas opened in CO, ID, NV, and NM, all opening Sept 15th as well, to spread out the pressure since the demand is clearly growing.

 

[EYJONAS!]

I've heard this comment from a few people. One being Shawn and some others that have been involved in the ULs.

FWP only used to record the amount of permits applied for and purchased. Not purchased outright in combined with the applied for permits. So for a long time no one really knew how many total tags were actually issued for a number of years. Up until recent years they've recorded the amount of sold outright and applied for tags.

Could be wrong but the sources are pretty legit.

I dunno I still think we should close this prick down though and delete it.

 

[Southern Elk]

Whether or not you guys succeed in getting this thread deleted, I’ve enjoyed it. Thanks to those who have let us follow along. I don’t think it’s a hunt that I will ever do, but I respect the hell out of those who’ve been successful.

 

[rogerthat]

Biologically speaking the more hunters/tags doesn’t matter unless a bunch of rams get off’d during the 48 hour notice period. At a certain amount of pressure, don’t you think rams are being pushed to the thick timber and being saved? This happens on other hunts in Montana a lot

 

[duckhunt]

Whether or not you guys succeed in getting this thread deleted, I’ve enjoyed it. Thanks to those who have let us follow along. I don’t think it’s a hunt that I will ever do, but I respect the hell out of those who’ve been successful.

This

 

[BlueSLYR]

That’s exactly how I ended up hearing about and joining HT.

same.

 

[Marshian]

I have a goat tag and am unfamiliar with the exact UL boundaries but I do know there is overlap. As for the road and washed out bridges, this was from two days ago.

 

[EYJONAS!]

I have a goat tag and am unfamiliar with the exact UL boundaries but I do know there is overlap. As for the road and washed out bridges, this was from two days ago.

View attachment 294477View attachment 294478View attachment 294477

What did the fwp say?

 

[buffybr]

Wasn't 302 also unlimited as well? Same with the north half of 300 which is now 304.

Yes 302 and the Spanish Peaks units were Unlimited. Some years in the late '70s and early '80 didn't fill their quotas and the season was open from early September through November.

I've posted these pics before, but here are the rams that I shot in 302 back in '84 and '86...

This second ram was 9 1/2 years old.

 

[kad11]

I haven't been super active here so my opinion doesn't count for much, but I'd probably nuke the thread for the sake of the hunt. Another option would be to move it to a different subforum that is only viewable by members who meet certain criteria (x number of posts, years of membership, etc.). Rokslide recently implemented something like this for more discreet discussions.

I got myself in a sketchy spot a few years ago and posted about it here. Took a few years off and have been back at it again last year and this year. I found a sublegal ram in 5 days of hunting last year. Hunted 6 days this year and saw 2 mountain goats.

FWIW, I've met a decent number of nonresident hunters waaay off trail in pretty gnarly stuff and most of them reference this thread.

 

[Marshian]

What did the fwp say?

I only talked with the goat biologist and was mostly concerned with his thoughts on my back up plan. He made it seem like the road was heavily damaged on last years flood and then something happens like a week or two ago that was the death knell.