rustneversleeps
Well-known member
Basically sums up the non-resident mindset and why Eastern Montana is so piss-poor
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- Thread starter BigHornRam
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Pretty low cost of entry as far as sheep hunts go. It sure is a pretty cool opportunity that not only locals but also non residents can do, without a guide as well. Sure be a shame to lose it for the next generation.
The Hedgehog
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If you're gonna be that old, pay that much, and go that far, by God you might as well do something really ridiculously embarrassing.
Make sure you get your money's worth.
sacountry
Well-known member
Funny story....a buddy went fishing on the Mo' this last weekend. He took my drift boat which as you can see from my profile pic, once carried a ram's head about 10 months ago. While camped at a campground north of Craig, all these rams show up. One of these rams proceeds to lick my drift boat (no pics unfortunately). What was that ram thinking? Could there have been some scent left in the bow of the boat? Maybe? Say it with me, @EYJONAS! .....only the ram knows.
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BAKPAKR
Well-known member
Let’s say you put a great unlimited ram to bed on September 24 - I am talking a ram like @MTGomer shot. If he remains anywhere near where you saw him at dark, you will have yourself a ram the next morning. That night, you message your buddy, via inReach, that tomorrow is the day. He responds and says that the quota has been met and that season closes a half hour after sunset on September 25.
When you get up on September 25, do you go after the ram or do you pack up camp and head to the truck?
When you get up on September 25, do you go after the ram or do you pack up camp and head to the truck?
lonedave
Active member
Wow, I can't believe you just gave up that little secret to the public....now everybody will be dragging their "baited" drift boats up the Boulder road!
recurveman
Well-known member
Guess I can only reply to one of you guys that don't like my comments.
I understand the conservation of the UL's. I'm all about keeping this hunt around for everyone. But here's the deal. Dude shot a legal sheep. Don't be mad at that guy or others that shoot a LEGAL sheep. It's like telling a deer hunter to only shoot 4X4's and not shoot the spike that is legal to shoot. Sure others hold out for 4X4's and others shoot spikes. it is different for everyone.
If you don't like young sheep shot then the rules need to be changed. Make it a 6 year old or older, make it a 15 or 20 year wait, or just make it once in a lifetime. There are many rules I don't agree with but if someone follows the rules then you shouldn't be mad at them. Change the rules.
I don't shoot small 320" bulls either. I don't get mad at guys when they decide to shoot really small 320" bulls. It is their choice. Kind of sad they don't let them grow up.
The money is an issue to many other hunters. The money isn't an issue for me. I plan on buying all the hunts that @ENJONAS has in his list....except the Tiburan hunt. I've got a desert tag in AZ right now and don't really have the urge to shoot a ram in Mexico. Would be open to buying a rocky tag too if I don't get it done in the UL's.
Bambistew
Well-known member
I've seen a few mention the long term effects for shooting young rams. I have a hard time believing that killing 1-2 rams a year, regardless of age has any effect on the herd health for the UL or any unit, and if it does, MT FWP needs to revaluate their management plans. I just looked at harvest stats and ages of rams killed in the ULs, There are oodles of 5 and 6oy rams killed in those units, even a bunch of 4 yos. Its "legal ram" to maximize opportunity. How many legal rams are available in any of those units on a given year? Its a small fraction of the total.
IMO, there is a greater argument that the older rams are more valuable, because they have more "knowledge" to pass on to the younger rams. Spread out the harvest across age class.
I haven't looked at MT regs in a while, but aren't almost all of Montana's sheep tags "either sex?" FWP must be on to something with the quota vs population vs any sheep being dead doesn't really matter.
We have a few any ram units here right next to "FC" units. The only difference in herd health is the the average age of harvest is higher in the FC units, marginally. Both have quotas, and are similar in terrain, weather patterns, etc. There are still plenty of big, old rams to kill in the any ram units. What effects herd health is weather.
IMO, there is a greater argument that the older rams are more valuable, because they have more "knowledge" to pass on to the younger rams. Spread out the harvest across age class.
I haven't looked at MT regs in a while, but aren't almost all of Montana's sheep tags "either sex?" FWP must be on to something with the quota vs population vs any sheep being dead doesn't really matter.
We have a few any ram units here right next to "FC" units. The only difference in herd health is the the average age of harvest is higher in the FC units, marginally. Both have quotas, and are similar in terrain, weather patterns, etc. There are still plenty of big, old rams to kill in the any ram units. What effects herd health is weather.
What did you hear happen in the Spanish Peak unit? I remember some serious predation one winter around 2000-2001, where about 30-40 sheep were killed by a mountain lion. A good friend of mine worked with FWP and killed the lion(s). It was closed soon after as the herd bounced back over a half dozen years. It didn't have anything to do with harvest of young rams. Most rams killed there were 6-8+. The quota was sometimes not even filled, as the season was only 6 days long over Labor day week. Tough, hot hunting conditions usually.
BAKPAKR
Well-known member
recurveman
Well-known member
The season is still open. Why would you not go after the ram?
If you wouldn't go after the ram on the 25th then you shouldn't have been hunting the 24th either since the quota was already full by the 24th.
The Hedgehog
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corndog1
Well-known member
I would love to shoot a "small" 320 bull.
Cheesehead
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Lotta hate for a dude that killed a legal ram. 
BAKPAKR
Well-known member
I would hope the FWP also took into consideration that younger rams might be killed. I don’t see anything wrong with someone shooting any legal ram during the open season.
rustneversleeps
Well-known member
It's one thing to shoot dinks and keep that to yourself...it's another thing to shoot dinks and then post it on public hunting forums looking for a pat on the back.
mevertsen
Well-known member
I am glad to hear the ram was in fact legal. I certainly don't have the confidence to say if I was in the field.
I also have a ram tag here in NV this year. Nevada is an "any ram" state for all ram hunts, so judging one has to do with me being satisfied with what I may take, not having to worry about if it is legal or not.
There used to be a lot of different restrictions until about 25 years ago when it changed to any ram. There were a lot of units that couldn't produce to that minimum for various reasons. It seems to be doing fine like it is now
There are quite a few 2 to 5 year old rams taken in the state every year. The goal for the state is an average of 6 years old, so they understand younger rams will be harvested.
I am not sure how two rams of any age is going to have an impact on the herd health in those unlimited units.
It certainly is an accomplishment. Good job to the hunter.
I also have a ram tag here in NV this year. Nevada is an "any ram" state for all ram hunts, so judging one has to do with me being satisfied with what I may take, not having to worry about if it is legal or not.
There used to be a lot of different restrictions until about 25 years ago when it changed to any ram. There were a lot of units that couldn't produce to that minimum for various reasons. It seems to be doing fine like it is now
There are quite a few 2 to 5 year old rams taken in the state every year. The goal for the state is an average of 6 years old, so they understand younger rams will be harvested.
I am not sure how two rams of any age is going to have an impact on the herd health in those unlimited units.
It certainly is an accomplishment. Good job to the hunter.
mtnkid85
Well-known member
Last year, when I heard the quota was filled in 501, I packed up and headed down. I wasn't in your stories exact shoes but I was on rams. It seems funny to me guys are not willing to harvest a legal young ram but are willing to keep harvesting sheep after the quota has been met.
Would I like to see more, larger, older rams in the ULs? Of course. But I still maintain any ram in the ULs is a trophy, simply by the amount of work it represents.
Any major infractions are going to reflect badly on the units. Whether thats guys killing sub legals or not reporting in time.
And I feel like if we keep harvesting rams after the quota has been filled that reflects badly as well.
Bambistew
Well-known member
Where the Hillguards ever UL, I don't remember them being so. I remember when it opened when I was about 10-12, and one of my grampas friends shot a giant ram there. Maybe it was UL before then, I'm not sure. The sheep mostly hang out near the highway later in the year. If I'm not mistaken its the only unit that closes early, for what ever reason.
My guess on the Spanish Peaks didn't go back to UL status because how easy access is today vs. when it originally was designated as such. Logging up Jack Creek/Moonlight and the explosion of Big Sky changed that entire area and access. IMO its really not the same type hunt as the others.
Why not make 303 a draw? No clue, other than it would just be a camping trip for most who draw. They'd have to give out 100 tags to kill 2 sheep a year.
A quota is the way to manage it. They could have a lot of units in MT the same way, make the season shorter/earlier, legal ram only, etc. MT could have a lot more opportunity to hunt sheep if they'd move away from guaranteeing success if you draw a tag.
Bambistew
Well-known member
Singed every unlimited sheep hunter.
The Hedgehog
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There is no new access to sheep now in spanish peaks vs as when it was unlimited. It closed entirely for a decade. Hunters, lions, cell service and disease are things I've heard were all contributing factors. They are killing about as many rams now as they did back in the UL days, with some years being exceptions. In 1992 - 22 rams were taken. I think the quota of 7 is too high for there, but that's just my opinion. It's a 100% cake walk hunt, in November. 7 might be okay if they closed it on Halloween like they do 302 (Hilgards)- which has been unlimited also.
